>> A NORTH CAROLINA FAVORITE AUTHOR, TEACHER, MUSICIAN AND LOVER OF OUR STATE'S SPECIAL NATURAL RESOURCES BLAND SIMPSON AUTHORED A BEAUTIFULLY ILLUSTRATED NEW BOOK, NORTH CAROLINA: LAND OF WATER, LAND OF SKY.

WE'LL TALK BRIEFLY WITH HIM ABOUT HIS BOOK AND THEN TURN THE TABLES AND HAVE HIM LEAD A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE HISTORY OF NORTH CAROLINA BOOKWATCH AND ITS PLACE IN OUR STATE'S LITERARY HISTORY.

ALL THAT COMING UP.

ON THIS SPECIAL EDITION OF NORTH CAROLINA BOOKWATCH.

>> QUALITY PUBLIC TELEVISION IS MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTIONS OF VIEWERS LIKE YOU WHO INVITE YOU TO JOIN THEM IN SUPPORTING PBS NC.

[LIGHT JAZZ, FLUTE LEADS] ♪ >> WELCOME TO NORTH CAROLINA BOOKWATCH AND TO FLYLEAF BOOKS IN CHAPEL HILL, ONE OF NORTH CAROLINA'S GREAT SUPPORTERS OF WRITERS.

AND OF THE NORTH CAROLINA BOOKWATCH.

I'M DG MARTIN AND OUR GUEST AND GUEST HOST IS BLAND SIMPSON.

HE WILL TELL US ABOUT HIS LATEST BOOK NORTH CAROLINA LAND OF WATER, LAND OF SKY.

AND AFTER HE TALKS BRIEFLY ABOUT HIS NEW BOOK HE'LL LEAD A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THIS PROGRAM, NORTH CAROLINA BOOKWATCH.

BLAND SIMPSON.

AUTHOR, PERFORMER.

A MUSICIAN, TEACHER, WRITER AND INSPIRER OF OTHER WRITERS WELCOME TO NORTH CAROLINA BOOKWATCH.

TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT NORTH CAROLINA, LAND OF WATER, LAND OF SKY.

>> DAVID PERRY OF UNC PRESS TOLD ME I HAD TO GET OUT OF THE COASTAL PLAIN AND TAKE A LOOK AT THE WHOLE STATE.

AND AFTER ABOUT 10 YEARS OF TELLING ME THAT, I DID.

OF COURSE I HAD GREAT HELP OF MY WIFE ANN WHO'S A TERRIFIC PHOTOGRAPHER AND OUTDOORS WOMAN AND EVENTUALLY WE LOOPED IN AS WE SAY TOM EARNHARDT OF EXPLORE NORTH CAROLINA AND SCOTT TAYLOR WITH WHOM I'VE DONE A BOOK ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO THE COAST OF CAROLINA.

>> BLAND, YOU'RE A GREAT WRITER, AND KNOW AS MUCH ABOUT NORTH CAROLINA HISTORY IN THE CONTEXT OF OUR ENVIRONMENT AND WHERE WE LIVE.

BUT THIS BOOK STANDS OUT.

THE PHOTOGRAPHY IS JUST PHENOMENAL.

AND THE ORGANIZATION OF THE BOOK.

>> WELL THANK YOU.

WE'VE BEEN DOING THESE COASTAL BOOKS GOING FROM NORTH TO SOUTH DOWN THE COASTAL PLAIN.

WE WENT FROM -- IT ALREADY SAYS MOUNTAINS TO THE SEA, BUT WE WENT FROM SEA TO THE MOUNTAINS.

CLIMBING THE WHOLE WAY AND SAVING THE PART WE KNEW REALLY LEAST ABOUT I THINK SO BOTH COASTAL PEOPLE ANN AND I FOR THE LAST AND WE'VE HAD A LOT OF HELP AND HAD A LOT OF FUN GOING TO WELL KNOWN PLACES AND TO A VERY OBSCURE PLACES.

>> YOU KNOW YOU OWN THE COAST AND THE SOUNDS AND WATER BETWEEN THE BANKS AND THE AND THE COASTAL PLAIN.

WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT THE PIEDMONT AND THE MOUNTAINS THAT YOU ENJOYED SHARING WITH US THE MOST?

>> I THINK GOING TO PLACES LIKE WEYMOUTH WOODS BEEN TO THE WEYMOUTH CENTER MANY TIMES BUT IT WAS ONLY FOUR, FIVE YEARS AGO THAT I WANT TO WEYMOUTH WOODS FOR THE FIRST TIME AND SAW THE BEAUTIFUL LONGLEAF STANDS THERE.

TOOK SOME STUDENTS, BOTH TO WEYMOUTH CENTER AND WEYMOUTH WOODS.

>> BUT THIS IS SOUTHERN OR NEAR SOUTHERN PINES.

>> YES.

RIGHT IN SOUTHERN PINES, BOTH OF THOSE PLACES >> CAN YOU TELL US KIND OF GOT THERE?

>> YES, TRY TO.

AND WEYMOUTH CENTER IS JUST VERY POPULAR AND IT'S A LITERARY EPIENTER IT'S WHERE THE LITERARY HALL OF FAME IS.

>> WHAT ABOUT WHEN YOU GOT TO THE MOUNTAIN- WHAT WOULD BE SOME OF THE HIGHLIGHTS OF THE THINGS THAT YOU FOUND IN THE MOUNTAINS THAT YOU LOVE AND THAT NEEDED TO BE TALKED ABOUT.

>> ONE OF THE MAIN ONES DG, WOULD BE BLUFF MOUNTAIN.

IT WAS THE FIRST MAJOR PROJECT OF THE NORTH CAROLINA NATURE CONSERVANCY IN THE LATE 70'S, AND THAT WAS WHAT WAS HAPPENING WHEN ANN WENT TO WORK THERE.

IT'S A STUNNING MOUNTAIN.

AND IN THE MIDST OF MANY STUNNING MOUNTAINS UP IN ASHE COUNTY.

YOU GO UP ONE OF THE STEEPEST SWITCHBACKS YOU CAN IMAGINE AND GET UP THERE ABOUT, I DON'T KNOW QUARTER MILE OR SO INTO THE SKY.

FROM WHERE YOU STARTED AND THEN YOU FIND THIS TABLETOP FLAT TOP LOOKING AROUND MANY MANY PLACES YOU'D SAY, I'M IN EDGECOMBE COUNTY, OR I'M DOWN IN BRUNSWICK COUNTY.

AND THIS BEAUTIFUL FAN RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT THAT THE TRAIL GOES ALL THE WAY AROUND.

WHEN I FIRST WENT OUT THERE.

I LEARNED THAT THE TOP OF BLUFF MOUNTAIN.

EONS AGO WAS THE VALLEY FLOOR FOR MOUNTAINS THAT WERE HIGHER THAN THE ROCKIES.

SO THEY WROTE IT ALL DOWN AND NOW WE'VE GOT THIS MOUNTAIN THAT USED TO BE AT THE BOTTOM.

THERE ARE A LOT OF GREAT FOLKS WORKING IN THE LAND CONSERVATION PRESERVATION AREA AND WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO.

WE JUST ADDED OVER THIS DECADE, ALMOST A MILLION PEOPLE WERE GOING TO ADD ANOTHER MILLION IN THE 2020'S.

AND WE'VE GOT TO KEEP OUR GREEN SPACES WE'VE GOT TO KEEP OUR WATER CLEAN.

AND WE'VE GOT TO PROTECT OUR FARMLAND.

WE LOST 600,000 ACRES OF FARMLAND IN THE PREVIOUS DECADE BACK IN THE TWO - BACK IN THE OTS, AS THE OLD TIMERS USED TO SAY.

YOU CAN'T KEEP DOING THAT AND AND HAVE A MAJOR FARMING ECONOMY.

THAT'S OUR BIGGEST INDUSTRY IN NORTH CAROLINA.

IT'S A 90 BILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY.

>> BLAND, A GREAT BOOK, A BEAUTIFUL BOOK.

THANK YOU FOR WRITING IT AND SHARING WITH US.

THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WE WANTED TO VISIT WITH YOU AND THE OTHER REASON IS YOU'VE AGREED TO SORT OF LEAD A DISCUSSION ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THIS PROGRAM, ABOUT THE HISTORY OF NORTH CAROLINA BOOKWATCH SO CAN WE TURN THE PODIUM OVER TO YOU?

>> SURE.

[JINGLING SOUND EFFECTS] >> DG, I GOT YOU WHERE I WANT YOU.

I WANT YOU TO TELL ME IF YOU CAN, BET YOU CAN, HOW DOES A MAN, A DAVIDSON BASKETBALL PLAYER, GREEN BERET, YALE LAW GRADUATE, A CHARLOTTE ATTORNEY UNC LEADER, AND A DEVOTED POLITICAL FIGURE.

BECOME A LEADING CULTURAL AMBASSADOR FOR NORTH CAROLINA LITERATURE?

>> MY CHALLENGE IS THE PREMISE OF YOUR QUESTION, >> PLEASE DON'T.

>> BUT I'M HAPPY TO HAVE BEEN A PART OF NORTH CAROLINA BOOKWATCH FOR MORE THAN 20 YEARS AND IT'S THE HIGHLIGHT OF MY LIFE.

>> AND AS WE SAY IN THE TRADE, HOW DID YOU GET THIS GIG?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHY THEY PICKED ME.

THEY MUST HAVE BEEN DESPERATE.

WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT IN THE LATE 1990'S, THE STAFF AND MANAGEMENT CAME UP WITH THE IDEA OF BEGINNING A PROGRAM FOR NORTH CAROLINA BOOKS.

WE HAD A WONDERFUL WOMAN.

WHO WAS THE FIRST HOST, AND SHE WOULD STILL BE DOING THAT PROGRAM IF THE MANAGEMENT HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THAT, BUT HER HUSBAND MOVED TO HONG KONG AND SHE DECIDED TO GO WITH HIM.

SO SHE HAD MADE THE PROGRAM SUCCESSFUL AND POPULAR AND SO THEY NEEDED SOMEBODY ELSE, AND WHY THEY PICKED ME I DON'T KNOW.

I CERTAINLY WASN'T PREPARED FROM A LITERARY STANDPOINT, I WASN'T ANY GREAT STUDENT OF LITERATURE OR ALL THAT FAMILIAR WITH NORTH CAROLINA LITERATURE.

BUT I HAD TELEVISION EXPERIENCE.

BOTH IN LEADING PROGRAMS ON CABLE TELEVISION, HELPING WITH SOME SPECIALS FOR UNC-TV AND FOR FUNDRAISING.

AND SO I GUESS THEY DECIDED TO GIVE ME A TRY AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE GREAT BLESSINGS OF MY LIFE.

>> WELL WE'RE ALL GLAD THEY DID MY GRANDDAD USED TO SAY, "SON YOU CAN'T DO IT ALONE."

YOU ALL HAVE PRODUCED WELL OVER 400 PROGRAMS.

YOU'VE HAD A GREAT STAFF ALL ALONG I THINK.

HOW ABOUT TELLING US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE STAFF AND HOW YOU HAVE WORKED TO CHOOSE THE BOOKS YOU'VE CHOSEN.

>> WELL FIRST OF ALL, THE STAFF AT WHAT WE CALLED UNC TV, THAT IS NOW PBS NORTH CAROLINA, A GREAT GROUP OF PEOPLE AND THEY ASSIGNED TO ME.

A NUMBER OF GREAT PRODUCERS WHO SHOULD GET GOLD WATCHES JUST FOR HAVING PUT UP WITH ME FOR ALL OF THIS TIME BECAUSE SO THERE'S A LOT OF POTENTIAL CONFLICT.

THEIR HAVING TO MANAGE THE EXPECTATIONS OF THE MANAGEMENT OF THE TELEVISION NETWORK AND THEY JUST DID A REMARKABLE JOB AND THEN THEY LED TEAMS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE EXPERTS IN SOUND AND LIGHTING EVERYTHING ELSE SO THAT THE SHOW COMES ACROSS AS BEING AS IT IS, PROFESSIONALLY MANAGED.

THE PERSON MIGHT HAVE HAD THE GREATEST DIFFICULTY WITH ME KATY LOEBRICH, HAS BEEN OUR PRODUCER FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS NOW, AND AS A PROFESSIONAL HERSELF IN TERMS OF INTEREST IN LITERARY.

AND SO WE'VE HAD A GOOD TIME AND I'VE BEEN RICHLY BLESSED BY HAVING GREAT PEOPLE SUPPORT THE PROGRAM AND SUCH A GREAT TECHNICAL QUALITIES.

>> YOU HAD MORGAN POTTS'S HELP IN CHOOSING A BOOK BACK IN SEASON, 11 I BELIEVE, NOT A BOOK THAT WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN YOUR IMMEDIATE CHOICE.

FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND.

>> WELL MORGAN AND I HAD CONFLICT BECAUSE MORGAN WAS YOUNGER AND HE SORT OF FELT LIKE I WAS STUCK WITH THE SORT OF OLD-TIME LITERARY WORLD OF NORTH CAROLINA.

AND HE PUSHED A BOOK ON THE -- GOSH I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME OF IT NOW -- >> BERNIE HARBERTS TOO PROUD TO WRITE A COW TO >> TOO PROUD TO WRITE A COW.

AND BERNIE WAS SUCH A WONDERFUL CHARACTER.

AND HIS STORY OF BOTH BEFORE AND AFTER HIS BOOK OF YOU KNOW KIND OF SAILING AROUND THE WORLD AND THEN COMING BACK TO NORTH CAROLINA WARNING TO WALK ACROSS THE STATE.

HE WANTED TO BRING A MULE, AND THE MULE NEEDED COMPANY.

AND SO THE STORY OF WALKING ACROSS NORTH CAROLINA WAS GREAT IN HIS BOOK BUT THE WAY HE TOLD IT CHARMED ALL OF US PARTICULARLY OUR VIEWERS AND I THINK THEY WOULD'VE LIKED TO TURN THE PROGRAM OVER TO HIM.

YOU HAVE TO THANK MORGAN FOR THAT BECAUSE WITHOUT HIS MAKING ME DO IT, I DON'T THINK WE EVER WOULD HAVE DONE THAT BOOK AND THAT'S ONE OF MY FAVORITE MEMORIES OF CONVERSATION WITH BERNIE.

ONE OF THE GREAT MEMORIES FOR ME IS JUST LIKE YOU AND I ARE SITTING HERE TODAY, I WAS SITTING WITH PAT CONROY WHO WE DECLARED TO BE A NORTH CAROLINIAN EVEN THOUGH HE'D ONLY GONE TO SCHOOL HERE FOR A YEAR OR 2 AND HAD A LOVE FOR NORTH CAROLINA.

SO I ASKED HIM A QUESTION SIMILAR TO THE ONE THAT YOU ASKED WHICH WAS, WHAT SETS YOU APART AS A WRITER?

WHAT MAKES YOU SUCH A GREAT WRITER?

AND HE SAID.. "WELL DG, I NOTICE THINGS."

AND I WAITED FOR A MINUTE AND HE SAID, "FOR INSTANCE, BEFORE YOU GOT STARTED WITH THIS PROGRAM THAT GUY WENT 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, SEVERAL TIMES.

AND I SAID, "WELL, WHY IS THAT ESPECIALLY.." HE SAID "I DON'T KNOW WHY IT WAS "SPECIAL, BUT I WILL GO HOME AND WRITE IT DOWN AND I WOULD USE IT SOME DAY."

SO WHEN PEOPLE ASK ME WHAT WHAT IT TAKES TO BE A GOOD WRITER REMIND THEM THAT ONE OF THE THINGS IS THAT YOU NOTICE THINGS THAT YOU REALLY NOTICE THINGS.

>> THAT'S A GREAT STORY.

NOW YOU HAD A QUITE A ROUNDTABLE ON LEE SMITH'S SIDE PORCH ONE TIME IN HILLSBOROUGH LEE, CLYDE EDGERTON, AL GURGANUS ALONG WITH EDITOR SHANNON RAVENEL TALKING ABOUT THE PROCESS OF WRITING THE ART OF STORYTELLING AND I WONDERED WHAT LESSONS OR IDEAS THAT YOU GLEANED FROM THAT SESSION.

>> WELL IT'S JAM-PACKED IT'S A SPECIAL, AND KATIE LOEBRICH EDITED AND MADE IT WORK INTO SOMETHING THAT I THINK SHOULD BE A PART OF A LOT OF WRITING COURSES.

THE ONE THING THAT CAUGHT MY ATTENTION MORE THAN ANYTHING WAS THE IMPORTANCE OF A GOOD RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE BOOK'S AUTHOR AND THE BOOK'S EDITOR.

>> I HAVE WRITTEN A BOOK ABOUT A NOVEL ABOUT COUNTRY MUSIC AND I HAD MADE UP MY WHOLE SINGING FAMILY BASED ON THE CARTER FAMILY WHICH I USED TO HEAR ALL THE TIME GROWING UP.

SO ANYWAY I AND I TRIED TO MAKE THE NOVEL LIKE AN ALBUM AND EACH OF THE MAJOR CHARACTERS HAD A SONG SO I MADE IT LIKE AN ALBUM, AND SO I HAD THIS ONE WOMAN CHARACTER WHO WAS LIKE A KIND OF A COMBINATION OF DOLLY PARTON AND LORETTA LYNN AND EVERYBODY.

SO HERE IT WAS HER SONG AND I'LL JUST SAY EACH SECTION WOULD START WITH THE PERSON'S SONG AND I'LL TELL YOU HER SONG AND THEN I'LL TAKE THE QUERY FROM THE END.

OKAY THE SONG IS >> CITY .. >> NO, I'VE GOT A I'VE GOT TO I'VE GOT A DOUBLE BED AND A DOUBLE WIDE AND DOUBLE SHOT OF GIN.

BUT I'M A SINGLE GAL IN A ONE-HORSE TOWN AND I'M LAYIN' HERE ALONE AGAIN.

[ALL LAUGHING AND APPLAUDING] >> SO I GET BACK THIS QUERY FROM THE EDITOR, AND AND HERES THE QUERY: IT SAYS "Q" AND IT SAYS, "DOUBLE WIDE WHAT?"

[ALL LAUGHING HYSTERICALLY] >> DOUBLE WIDE WHAT.

SHE JUST DIDN'T KNOW THAT.

SO THERE'S NO EDITING ME.

[LAUGHS] >> I HAD A CHARACTER, THIS WAS LONG [INDISTINCT] ON JULY 7TH WHEN WE STARTED WORKING, RIGHT?

>> WE PUBLISHED HER FIRST 2 NOVELS SIMULTANEOUSLY >> I HAD A CHARACTER WHO SAID, "I MIGHT COULD GO.." AND SHANNON CIRCLED THAT, AND IN HER NOTE IN THE MARGIN, SHE SAID, "NOW WOULD KATE USE POOR GRAMMAR?"

AND I REMEMBER I WROTE YOU BACK AND I SAID, "SHE MIGHT".

[ALL LAUGHING] BECAUSE I MADE THE BOY AND I WAS LIKE, "WHAT?"

HE WAS 26 AND HAD GONE TO COLLEGE AND THAT NOBODY HAD EVER TOLD ME THAT.

SO I LEARNED... >> AND SHANNON RAVANEL WAS A PART OF THE PROGRAM AND SHE HEADED TO ALL OF THESE AUTHORS AND ALL OF THEM TALKED ABOUT HOW WONDERFUL IT WAS TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH SOMEBODY WHO CAN TELL YOU WHERE YOU'RE WRONG., AND WHERE YOU -- APPRECIATE YOU OR TELL YOU GIVE YOU SUGGESTIONS OF HOW YOU MIGHT MAKE THE WRITING BETTER.

SO THE LESSON FOR ME WAS THAT IF I EVER WANTED TO WRITE LIKE THIS WHAT I WOULD REALLY COVET WOULD BE AN EDITOR WHO WOULD BE A COLLEAGUE AND A COOPERATING PERSON.

JUST AS YOU SAID, IT'S REALLY HARD TO DO IT BY YOURSELF.

>> WELL, I WANT TO QUOTE A COUPLE OF YOUR GUESTS, NOVELIST JOHN RUSSELL AND MYSTERY AND CRIME WRITER JEFFREY DEAVER ON WRITING TECHNIQUES.

JOHN RUSSELL SAID HE FRAMES HIS CHARACTERS AND THEN THEY, IN HIS WORDS, START MISBEHAVING.

JEFFREY DEAVER SAYS ON THE OTHER HAND, I SPEND 8 MONTHS RESEARCHING AND OUTLINE OF MY BOOK NOW THOSE ARE THAT'S KIND OF A POLARITY THERE AND I JUST WONDERED WHAT DURING ALL THESE CONVERSATIONS WHAT IS PERHAPS THE MOST UNUSUAL WRITING TECHNIQUES THAT YOU -- >> I DON'T KNOW THAT I CAN COME UP WITH THE SUCCESSFUL UNUSUAL WRITING TECHNIQUE BUT MOST OF THE DIFFERENCES IN WRITING A NOVEL OR WRITING A STORY COME UP BETWEEN THOSE 2 QUOTES THAT IS THE PERSON WHO FEELS LIKE JOHN GRISHAM HAS HIS BOOK OUTLINED IN HIS MIND WHEN YOU GET STARTED.

HE KNOWS WHAT THE CLOSING SENTENCE IS GOING TO BE AND OTHERS PEOPLE WHO SAY "I LET MY CHARACTER'S LEAD ME."

AND AT FIRST, I THOUGHT, GET OUT YOUR CHARACTERS LEE, YOU'RE THE AUTHOR.

YOU MAKE IT WORK.

AND MORE AND MORE AS TALKED TO PEOPLE UNDERSTOOD THIS PARTNERSHIP NOT ONLY WITH YOUR EDITOR BUT PARTNERSHIP WITH YOUR CHARACTERS WHERE YOU.

AND IS THE AUTHOR.

YOU KNOW ABOUT YOUR CHARACTERS AND YOU BECOME INVOLVED WITH IN A CLOSE WAY.

AND SO AS A PLOT KIND OF DEVELOPS, IT CAN BE A SUCCESSFUL PLOT THAT'S CHARACTER DRIVEN.

SO I MOVED FROM BEING A DEAVER JEFFREY DEAVER DISCIPLE OF 'GET IT ALL ORGANIZED, KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING, KNOW WHAT THE END IS GOING TO BE, DON'T BE UNORGANIZED ABOUT IT,' TO MORE AND MORE OF APPRECIATIVE OF HOW IMPORTANT TO THE AUTHOR IS A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF AND APPRECIATION AND LOVE FOR THE CHARACTERS THAT HE OR SHE HAS DEVELOPED.

>> WILLIAM FAULKNER SAID HE TURNED THE CHARACTERS LOOSE AND JUST CHASED 'EM DOWN THE ROAD WITH A PENCIL SCRIBBLING DOWN WHAT THEY WERE WHAT THEY WERE DOING AS FAST AS HE COULD.

>> ONE THING TO KIND OF GET US GOING IN WRITING WHAT WOULD WHAT WOULD YOU SUGGEST?

>> WELL THIS BOOK TAUGHT ME THAT IT IS POSSIBLE TO WRITE WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW.

AND ALL WRITING TEACHERS SAY WRITE WHAT YOU KNOW, BUT I WOULD ARGUE THAT IT'S POSSIBLE TO WRITE YOURSELF INTO LEARNING ABOUT SOMETHING AND THAT BRINGING MY IGNORANCE TO THESE TOPICS AND SHARING WHAT I DISCOVERED WITH MY READERS WAS ACTUALLY I THINK A PRETTY DECENT FORMULA FOR MAKING A BOOK.

I REALLY WENT AFTER THINGS I DIDN'T KNOW SO I'M NOT A CHEF I'M NOT A BOTANIST I AM NOT A TRAINED HISTORIAN.

BUT I'M INTERESTED IN PEOPLE I LOVE TO INTERVIEW THEM, I LOVE TO TELL THEIR STORIES AND I FOUND A THEME THAT I COULD PULL A THREAD THROUGH THIS BOOK.

>> I MEAN SO YOU'RE SAYING OK DG, YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ANYTHING THAT'S A GREAT BLESSING BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT A WHOLE EMPTY SLATE TO GO OUT AND LEARN SOMETHING AND WRITE IT DOWN FOR OTHER PEOPLE.

>> RIGHT.

>> WELL YOU GIVE ME ANOTHER TIP, I THINK YOU CHANGED MY LIFE.

[LAUGHING] >> LET'S TALK ABOUT MYSTERIES A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE THESE ARE VERY TIGHTLY ORGANIZED BOOKS, PLOTS, OUR SECRETARY OF STATE ELAINE MARSHALL TELLS NEWCOMERS 'IF YOU WANT TO KNOW NORTH CAROLINA READ MARGARET MARON'S JUDGE DEBORAH KNOTT SERIES AND YOU KNOW MARGARET, YOU MET HER FROM TIME TO TIME I BELIEVE DOWN AT STEPHENSON'S BARBECUE, >> OH, THOSE ARE GOOD MEMORIES.

>> IN JOHNSTON COUNTY WHICH WAS STARTED BY SHELBY STEPHENSON'S BROTHER.

>> OH THAT'S A GREAT STORY.

>> AND SHELBY, OUR FORMER POET LAUREATE.

>> DID YOU KNOW THE STORY ABOUT HOW HIS BROTHER GOT IN THE BUSINESS?

>> OF BARBECUE?

>> YEAH.

>> NO.

>> WELL THEY WERE JUST OL' DIRT FARMERS AND THEY HAD SOME PIGS AND THEY WOULD SHELBY'S BROTHER AND THE WHOLE FAMILY THEY WOULD SELL THEIR PIGS, AND ONE DAY THEY SOLD A PIG AND SHELBY'S BROTHER SAID, "WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH THIS PIG?

GUY SAID, " I'M GONNA BARBECUE IT AND I'M GONNA SELL THE BARBECUE.

HE SAID, "HOW MUCH YOU GOING TO SELL THE BARBECUE FOR?"

GUY TOLD HIM THAT YOU KNOW HE COULD PROBABLY GET $0.35 A SANDWICH FOR IT AND FIGURED OUT THAT 'MY GOLLY I LETTING THIS OTHER GUY MAKE ALL THE MONEY OFF THE PIG THAT RAISED.'

AND THEY SAID WE'LL JUST TRY THAT WE'LL GET IN THE BARBECUE BUSINESS AND OF COURSE IS ANYBODY WHO'S BEEN AT STEPHENSON'S, IT'S ALONG THE WAY BETWEEN RALEIGH AND I-95 KNOWS THAT'S A GOOD BARBECUE AND THANK GOODNESS THAT HAPPENED.

>> FOR ALL OF US AND WE'LL COME BACK TO BARBECUE IN A MINUTE.

HOW ABOUT SOME OF THE OTHER MYSTERY WRITERS YOU'VE HAD ON THE SHOW KATIE MUNGER, ADAM PRICE IS A COLLEAGUE OF MINE HERE AT CHAPEL HILL, KATHY REICHS.

>> WELL KATHY IS WONDERFUL AND BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL WITH A FORMULA, INVOLVES MYSTERIES, NOT THE TYPICAL ONES, BUT ONES HAVING TO DO WITH THE WAY THE BODY WORKS, SHE'S A FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST I GUESS, BUT ANYWAYS, SHE CAN TAKE BONES AND FIGURE OUT HOW THOSE BONES GOT SEPARATED FROM THEIR BODY.

SO THOSE MINISTRIES WHICH WHERE THE CONCLUSION COMES IN A SURPRISING WAY, BUT IT HAS TO DO WITH THE WORKINGS OF THE BODY, SORT OF THE SCIENCE OF IT.

THERE ARE OTHER MYSTERIES, KATIE'S BOOKS ARE ALMOST INSIDE LOOK AT NORTH CAROLINA.

AND SO THE MYSTERY IS KIND OF WOVEN AROUND NORTH CAROLINA POLITICAL LIFE AND SOCIAL LIFE AND IT MAKES THE MYSTERY EVEN RICHER.

WILEY CASH, ONE OF OUR GREAT - WE CAN'T CALL HIM UP AND COMING ANYMORE.

HE'S COME.

HIS MYSTERIES ARE SET AROUND CHARACTERS AND SITUATIONS ALMOST ALWAYS IN NORTH CAROLINA GASTONIA THAT COME TO A CONCLUSION, SURPRISING CONCLUSION.

BUT ONE THAT THAT OF COURSE THAT YOU COULDN'T PREDICT OR REALLY DESCRIBE THE FORMULA TO IT.

>> ONE OF YOUR POLITICAL OPPONENTS WHO WAS ALSO ONE OF YOU'RE GREAT FRIENDS ON THE SHOW GOVERNOR JIM MARTIN FORMER GOVERNOR JIM MARTIN.

AND DIDN'T HE HAVE A LITTLE DUST-UP CONCERNING EVOLUTION?

>> YEAH, JIM MARTIN WAS A GREAT FRIEND WE LIVE NEAR EACH OTHER AND HAD THE DAVIDSON CONNECTION IN FACT, JIM MARTIN TAUGHT ME A CHEMISTRY LAB AT DAVIDSON WHEN I WAS COMING ALONG THAT WE GOT ON THE OTHER SIDE EACH OTHER'S OTHER SIDE BUT HE WROTE A WONDERFUL BOOK BUT HIS BOOK WAS BASICALLY KIND OF A RELIGIOUS SCIENCE BOOK SAYING HOW YOU CAN BELIEVE IN WHAT SCIENCE TEACHES US AND STILL BE DEVOTED TO YOUR RELIGION.

>> THE BIBLE TELLS US ABOUT THAT RELATIONSHIP, THE PROPER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN HUMANS AND GOD, OUR CREATOR.

AND THERE ARE OTHER TRADITIONS THAT HAVE HAD DIFFERENT INSIGHTS OVER HISTORY AND OF THEIR CIVILIZATIONS THAT IS SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT, BUT THEY ALL HAVE THIS INNATE UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE WAS A PURPOSE IN OUR BEING HERE AND THAT PURPOSE IMPLIES A DESIGN CONCEPT AND IMPLIES A CREATOR AND THAT'S TRUE IN ASTRONOMY, IT'S TRUE IN PHYSICS, IT'S TRUE IN BIOLOGY WITH THE COMPLEXITY OF THAT CODE OF DNA.

>> WHEN HE WAS GOVERNOR HE WAS TRAVELING DOWN EAST ONE-TIME AND HE STOPPED AT THIS GATHERING PLACE AND THEY HAD THIS BIG - I GUESS IT'S A BIG FOSSIL OF A WHALE OR PART OF A WHALE AND THE PEOPLE WERE SO PROUD OF IT AND BRAGGING ABOUT IT AND SO GOVERNOR MARTIN SAID THAT THIS REALLY IS SOMETHING.

THIS MUST BE 6 MILLION YEARS OLD.

THE GUYS WHO GATHERED AROUND ADMIRINGLY SAID WELL AT LEAST 6,000 YEARS OLD.

AND JIM MARTIN REALIZES HE WAS COMING INTO CONFLICT WITH THESE BIBLE LITERALLY HE SAYS THAT HE WAS WISE ENOUGH NOT TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT CONVERSATION LEAVE IT RIGHT THERE AT 6,000 YEARS.

>> YOU HAVE NEVER SHIED AWAY FROM WHAT IS OFTEN CALLED THESE DAYS HARD HISTORY.

YOU HAD DAVID ZUCCHINO ON THE SHOW TALKING ABOUT WHAT WILMINGTON'S LIE.

THE 1898 COUP.

YOU'VE HAD WILLIAM DARITY AND KIRSTEN MULLEN TALKING ABOUT FROM HERE TO EQUALITY, >> AND REPARATIONS >> REPARATIONS.

YOU'VE HAD GENE NICHOL ON THE FACES OF POVERTY.

JOHN GRISHAM INTERVIEWED, HOW HAVE AUDIENCES RESPONDED IN GENERAL AND IN PARTICULAR TO DEALING WITH TOUGH FACTS.

>> WE HAVEN'T HAD ANY COMPLAINTS ABOUT DEALING WITH THESE MATTERS AND THEN MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE WE TRY TO BE BALANCED AND WE'RE NOT SOLEY PREACHING ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BOOKS, BUT THERE'VE BEEN SOME REALLY GREAT BOOKS THAT DEAL WITH THESE TOUGH ISSUES, AND ZUCCHINO'S BOOK ABOUT WILMINGTON IS ONE OF THOSE.

AND OF COURSE ZUCCHINO IS...

HE COULD HAVE JUST SAT AROUND WRITING, BUT HE DECIDED HE NEEDED TO HELP COVER THE STORIES IN AFGHANISTAN.

AND SPENT EVERY OTHER MONTH IN AFGHANISTAN.

>> HE'S COVERED AFGHANISTAN SINCE DECEMBER 2001.

AND DURING THE RECENT COLLAPSE OF THE AFGHANI GOVERNMENT AND OUR REMOVAL FROM THERE, HE WAS WRITING THE HEADLINES AND MANY OF THE STORIES THAT FIRST WEEK, THE WEEK STARTING THE 15TH OF AUGUST.

THAT'S HIS WORK.

IN THE NEW YORK TIMES.

>> HE WRITES A GOOD BOOK TOO.

>> HE DOES INDEED.

HE DOES, AND WILMINGTON'S LIE WON THE PULITZER PRIZE FOR GENERAL NON-FICTION THIS YEAR SO GREAT WRITER AND A GREAT FRIEND.

>> THIS IS OFF THE SUBJECT, BUT TALKING ABOUT DAVID REMINDS ME COVID CRISIS HIT US.

IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE FOR US TO GET AUTHORS TO COME IN TO DO INTERVIEWS SO IT WAS JUST TOO RISKY.

AND SO WE WERE STUCK.

WE REALIZED PRETTY QUICKLY THAT WE COULD STAY IN COMMUNICATION WITH ZOOM.

WELCOME BACK VIA THE INTERNET TO CHAPEL HILL AND NORTH CAROLINA.

WE'RE VERY PROUD OF YOU, AND THANKS FOR BEING A PART OF THIS PROGRAM.

AND KATY LOEBRICH SAID WE COULD TRY TO DO A ZOOM INTERVIEW WITH OUR AUTHORS, AND THE FIRST ONE THAT WE DID WAS WITH THE DAVID, AND IT WAS A MESS, ON MY HOME COMPUTER, DAVID WAS PRETTY WELL SET UP BECAUSE HE'S A PROFESSIONAL, KATY WAS GATHERING TOGETHER AND THANKS TO HER, SHE TURNED WHAT WAS SOME MAYBE NOT THE BEST QUALITY INTO DOABLE PROGRAM AND WE REALIZED THAT WE COULD KEEP ON DOING THEM AND WE GOT SO THAT WE WERE DOING REMOTE PROGRAMS AND HAVING IT WORK OUT SUCCESSFULLY.

BUT DAVID WAS THE FIRST.

>> HE IS EVER READY.

LET'S TALK ABOUT FOOD.

NOT EVERYBODY KNOWS THIS BUT A LOT DO.

YOUR FOOD WRITER.

DG WROTE NORTH CAROLINA'S ROADSIDE EATERIES.

AS FAR AS I CAN TELL YOU'VE LITERALLY EATEN YOUR WAY ACROSS THE STATE, AND AS OF SOME OF OUR OTHER AUTHOR FRIENDS.

JOHN REID DAVID CECELSKI, BOB GARNER, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU'RE ALSO A SLENDER MAN GIVEN THE REPORTS ON WHAT YOU'VE EATEN.

I WONDER IF WE MIGHT LOOK IN ON CHEFS, WRITERS RICKY MOORE FROM THE SALT BOX IN DURHAM, AND VIVIAN HOWARD DEEP RUN ROUTES, >> TWO GREAT PEOPLE.

- MY GUEST IS RICKY MOORE, AUTHOR OF SALTBOX SEAFOOD JOINT COOKBOOK.

- [RICKY] YES.

- RICKY MOORE, WELCOME.

GLAD YOU'RE HERE.

- HEY, DG.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

AS YOU, I'VE ALREADY TOLD YOU, I'M A HUGE FAN OF YOURS.

SO THIS IS A WONDERFUL OPPORTUNITY TO KIND OF HAVE A CONVERSATION.

- WELL, IT'S EXCITING FOR ME.

AND, OF COURSE, RECIPROCALLY, YOU ARE ONE OF MY HEROES FOR A LOT OF REASONS.

- [BLAND] TELL US A LITTLE ABOUT THEIR VISIT.

- WELL, RICKY, HE AND I SHARE THE EXPERIENCE OF, AND LOVE FOR THE ARMY.

AND HE LEARNED TO COOK IN THE ARMY.

AND OTHER PEOPLE WOULD SAY, GOSH, I DON'T WANT TO..

HE TOOK PRIDE IN THE FOOD THAT HE SERVED IN HIS UNIT, OR AT HIS BASE.

AND ALWAYS WORKING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO COOK IN VOLUME AND STILL HAVE IT BE ATTRACTIVE.

HE GOT SO INTERESTED IN COOKING THAT WHEN HE CAME OUT OF THE ARMY, HE ULTIMATELY MADE HIS WAY TO THE CULINARY INSTITUTE OF AMERICA, WHICH IS SORTA LIKE HARVARD, OR UNC OF WHERE CHEFS WANNA GO TO LEARN HOW TO MANAGE A GREAT RESTAURANT.

SO HERE IS THIS, YOU KNOW, POOR AFRICAN-AMERICAN KID FROM DOWN IN THE NEWBURN AREA COMES UP, GETS A GOOD EDUCATION, IS A PROFESSIONAL IN THE FOOD BUSINESS.

AND WHAT DOES HE WANNA DO?

HE WANTS TO OPEN A SHACK [CHUCKLES] AND COOK FOOD, SEAFOOD, FRESH SEAFOOD, AND SERVE IT AND ENJOY THAT.

AND THAT'S WHAT HE DID.

HE DID WHAT HE WANTED TO DO AND BECAUSE HE'S DOING WHAT HE WANTED TO DO, AND BECAUSE HE WAS, UNDERSTOOD THAT, ONE OF THE SECRETS, TO SERVING GOOD SEAFOOD IS GETTING IT FROM THE RIGHT PEOPLE, FRESH FROM THE SHORE.

AND HE WORKED OUT HIS CONNECTIONS.

YOU'D RATHER BE IN CHARGE AND RUNNING, AND HAVE AS YOUR OWN, A SMALLER OPERATION THAN TO BE WORKING FOR SOMEBODY ELSE IN A THREE, OR FOUR, OR FIVE, MULTI-STAR, FRENCH RESTAURANT.

- WELL, I WOULD SAY THIS, DG, CAUSE I'VE DONE THAT BEFORE, BUT WHEN I REACHED A CERTAIN PART IN MY CAREER, I WAS LIKE, OKAY, I WANNA DO SOMETHING SIMPLE, SOMETHING STRAIGHT FORWARD, BUT APPLY ALL OF THAT FINE DINING TECHNIQUE THAT I LEARNED TO THIS SORT OF CONCEPT THAT I COULD FEED THE MASSES WITH.

AND SO A LOT OF PEOPLE CAN IDENTIFY.

- SO, THE SAD PART THAT I'VE JUST LEARNED IS THAT RICKY WAS SUCCESSFUL ENOUGH TO OPEN ANOTHER BRANCH IN DURHAM OF THE SALTBOX.

AND IT'S, THAT BRANCH HAS BEEN SO SUCCESSFUL, AND THE TROUBLE OF GETTING A NEW LEASE ON THE ORIGINAL SALTBOX WAS SO DIFFICULT THAT HE IS CLOSING THE ORIGINAL SALTBOX TO CONCENTRATE ON THE REGULAR RESTAURANT.

AND THAT MADE ME SAD FOR A MOMENT AS A HISTORIAN, BUT WHEN I REALIZED THAT HE, THAT MEANS HE'S GONNA BE SPENDING A LOT MORE TIME IN HIS REGULAR RESTAURANT.

- MAY THE SALTBOX LIVE ON.

- [DG] [LAUGHS] YEAH.

- FOREVER.

HE'S A WONDERFUL MAN.

HOW ABOUT VIVIAN HOWARD AND HER VISIT WITH THE BOOKWATCH?

- VIVIAN IS, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE MOST ATTRACTIVE PEOPLE THAT YOU'D EVER MEET AND SO AMBITIOUS IN A VERY POSITIVE WAY.

BUT SHE WAS, THE ONLY WAY KATIE COULD ARRANGE FOR HER TO COME WAS TO CATCH HER ON THE WAY TO A FLIGHT WHERE SHE WAS GOING TO NEW YORK OR SOMEPLACE FOR ANOTHER INTERVIEW.

AND WE CAUGHT HER.

AND SHE WAS JUST AS GRACIOUS IN PERSON AS SHE IS ON THE SCREEN.

AND YOU HAVE TO REALLY ADMIRE HER AS A LOYAL NORTH CAROLINIAN FOR COMING BACK FROM NEW YORK, WHERE SHE SORT OF LEARNED THE TRADE, TO HER HOMETOWN IN KINSTON.

AND OPENING A RESTAURANT IN THE MIDDLE OF KINSTON AND HAS CONTRIBUTED TO THE REVIVAL OF THAT TOWN.

YOU'VE BEEN WORKING IN NEW YORK , TRAINING UNDER SOME OF THE BEST CHEFS IN THE NATION, OR IN THE WORLD, AND THEN DECIDED TO COME BACK HOME.

HOW DID THAT DECISION,/\ TO COME BACK HOME, LEAD TO THIS WONDERFUL BOOK, "DEEP RUN ROOTS?"

- I MEAN, THAT'S A LONG, THAT'S A LONG JOURNEY.

BUT I CERTAINLY WOULD NEVER HAVE WRITTEN THIS BOOK, OR HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO IF I HADN'T COME BACK HOME.

- ALMOST INDEFENSIBLE DECISION THAT YOU GUYS MADE.

TELL US ABOUT IT.

- WELL, YOU KNOW, WE WERE WORKING AND LIVING IN THE CITY AND, YOU KNOW, FROM THE OUTSIDE, I GUESS IT PROBABLY LOOKED LIKE WE WERE ON THE UP AND UP, BUT LIVING IN NEW YORK IS A STRUGGLE AND WE BOTH WORKED SEVERAL JOBS.

WE HAD THIS LITTLE CATERING BUSINESS ON THE SIDE AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY HERE.

YOU KNOW, MY PARENTS, MY FAMILY SAID THAT THEY WOULD HELP US OPEN A RESTAURANT HERE.

- IN KINSTON?

- THEY ACTUALLY SAID, WELL, THEY SAID ANYWHERE IN NORTH CAROLINA.

AND I THOUGHT, OH, I'D LOVE TO LIVE IN ASHEVILLE.

[CHUCKLES] BUT WHEN WE CAME, WHEN WE AGREED TO MOVE, IT BECAME CLEAR THAT REALLY THE RESTAURANT WAS GOING TO BE IN KINSTON.

AND THAT WAS THAT.

- WELL, SINCE YOU'VE COME BACK, I LOVE, AS YOU KNOW, I LOVE THIS QUOTE THAT YOUR, EASTERN NORTH CAROLINA IS YOUR TUSCANY, YOUR SZECHUAN, YOUR PROVENCE.

- IT REALLY JUST SPEAKS TO THE FACT THAT I BELIEVE THAT EASTERN NORTH CAROLINA'S FOOD TRADITIONS ARE AS DEEP AND AS ROOTED, AND AS VARIED, AND DELICIOUS AS ANY OF THE NOTEWORTHY FOOD REGIONS OF THE WORLD.

AND YOU KNOW, MANY OF THE CUISINES THAT WE EXALT, THE CUISINE OF TUSCANY, THE CUISINE OF SZECHUAN, YOU KNOW, THIS, THAT IS FOOD FROM, THAT IS POOR PEOPLE FOOD.

RUSTIC FOOD THAT PEOPLE HAVE RELIED ON THE EARTH AND FARMING, AND HARVESTING, AND PRESERVING THEIR FOOD.

AND THAT'S HOW THOSE TRADITIONS FORMED AND EASTERN NORTH CAROLINA IS NO DIFFERENT.

- SO WE CAN SAY THE FOOD TRADITIONS OF, PROVENCE, OF TUSCANY, SZECHUAN, AND EASTERN NORTH CAROLINA.

- EXACTLY.

- AND THOSE ARE THE FOUR, - [LAUGHS] THE FOUR - THOSE ARE THE FOUR PLACES.

- YOUR BOOK ON NC EATERIES HAVE GOTTEN YOU INTO BARBECUE JOINTS ALL OVER THE STATE.

AND I'VE BEEN THINKING, PERHAPS YOU ARE THE UNIFIER OF EAST AND WEST.

AND YOU USED, IN THIS NORTH CAROLINA EATERIES, ROADSIDE EATERIES BOOK, YOU USED A COUPLE OF QUOTES BY JACK BETS.

HE SAYS, "LEXINGTON BARBECUE IS REGARDED BY MANY TRAVELERS AS THE MOTHER CHURCH OF NORTH CAROLINA BARBECUE."

A FEW PAGES LATER, JACK, A GREAT FRIEND OF BOTH OF US, GREAT POLITICAL WRITER, JACK SAYS, "THE BEST IS WILBUR SHIRLEY'S PEPPERY CHOPPED BARBECUE COOKED THE OLD WAY OVER HARDWOOD COALS IN GOLDSBORO."

AND YOU'VE HAD JIM EARLY, BOB GARNER, JOHN SHELTON REED, AND DALE VOLBERG REED, WITH HOLY SMOKE, JOHN BEING A PROPONENT OF THE TRUE QUE, THE WOODSMOKE BARBECUE.

WHAT CAN YOU SAY ABOUT BARBECUE ACROSS THE STATE, DG, THAT WON'T GET US BOTH IN TROUBLE?

- I WILL DO MY BEST BECAUSE I'M NOT LIKE JOHN REED OR JIM EARLY WAS, A REAL EXPERT ON THE SCIENCE OF GETTING GOOD BARBECUE, I ENJOY THE MEAL SITTING AROUND THE TABLE WITH LOCAL PEOPLE AT A, AT A GOOD BARBECUE PLACE, DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THE BEST.

I WILL SAY THAT I, I SURE, I STOPPED AT LEXINGTON EVERY TIME I, EVERY TIME I'M ON THE WAY BETWEEN CHAPEL HILL AND CHARLOTTE.

- YEAH, I THINK YOU SAID THE OWNER THINKS YOU'RE PART OF THE STAFF.

[DG CHUCKLES] - WELL, I DO, I DO LOVE IT.

THE EASTERN NORTH CAROLINA WAY OF COOKING IT IS ALSO VERY PERSUASIVE AND IT'S, I LIKE THE, I LIKE THE PARTS OTHER THAN OTHER, OTHER THAN THE SHOULDERS.

I'LL HAVE TO, ONE STORY I REMEMBER ON VISIT TO A BARBECUE PLACE IN STATESVILLE THAT'S NO LONGER THERE, CHARLES KURALT VISITED AT ONE TIME AND HE WROTE ABOUT IT AND SAID SOMETHING LIKE THIS WAS DONE ABSOLUTELY THE RIGHT WAY.

IT WAS COOKED OVER WOOD COALS ALL NIGHT LONG, CUT, CHOP, READY FRESH, BUT THERE'S ONLY ONE THING WRONG WITH IT.

AND IT WASN'T A WHOLE PIG.

YOU MISSED THE OTHER PARTS OF IT.

SO HE WROTE THIS UP AND THE STATESVILLE BARBECUE PLACE WAS KIND OF SHOCKED THAT HE HAD MADE A REAL UNQUALIFIED COMPLIMENT FOR THEIR BARBECUE BECAUSE IT'S PRETTY GOOD.

SO THEY PUT UP A SIGN, WHICH JUST SAID, THIS IS WHAT CHARLES KURALT SAID AND IF YOU WANT GRIST AND FAT IN YOUR BARBECUE WE'LL BE HAPPY TO ADD IT BEFORE WE SERVE IT TO YOU.

- SO, CHARLES KURALT GOT THEM TO BRING ON THE GRISTLE?

- BRING ON THE GRISTLE.

- SEVERAL YEARS AGO, YOU SHARED THE CHAIR, THE BOOKWATCH CHAIR, WITH THE LATE RANDALL KENAN OF CHINQUAPIN, WHICH IS TIM'S CREEK IN HIS FICTION, AND WITH THE MEMBER, SCHOLAR, AND AUTHOR OF THE LUMBEE TRIBE, BELINDA MANER LOWERY.

AND I THINK THAT WAS A WONDERFUL THING, A VERY GENEROUS AND THOUGHTFUL THING.

AND I WONDERED HOW, IF YOU'D TELL US HOW YOU AND THE BOOKWATCH STAFF CAME TO DO THAT.

- IT WASN'T, YOU KNOW, MAINLY MY DECISION, THIS WAS A DECISION FROM, WE'LL SAY THE PBS NC STAFF, FROM KATIE.

AND THAT WAS THAT WE NEEDED A LITTLE MORE VARIETY AND ONE OF THE WAY, AND WE NEEDED, WE ALSO NEEDED TO BEGIN TO FIGURE OUT HOW WE HANDLE THE PROGRAM WHEN I WAS GONE, HAVE A SUCCESSION PLAN AND THAT WE WOULD TRY TO GET SOME OTHER PEOPLE.

AND THEY WERE KIND ENOUGH TO SAY, WE'D LIKE PEOPLE THAT YOU WOULD RECOMMEND.

AND OF COURSE, MELINDA AND RANDALL WERE PEOPLE WHO WERE FRIENDS OF MINE AND WERE JUST GREAT.

THEY WERE ARTICULATE.

AND ALSO OF COURSE, VERY WELL INFORMED ABOUT NORTH CAROLINA LITERATURE, EACH ONE OF THEM HAD TWO PROGRAMS AND THEY SELECTED AUTHORS THAT THEY THOUGHT NEEDED ATTENTION OR THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO INTERVIEW AND THOSE PROGRAMS, I DON'T KNOW...

THEY WERE VERY POPULAR.

I DON'T WANNA SAY THEY WERE MORE POPULAR THAN MINE, BUT THEY PROBABLY WERE.

BUT ANYWAY, IT WAS A, IT WAS A GREAT THING FOR US TO DO.

AND OF COURSE, BOTH OF THEM HAD BEEN GUEST ON NORTH CAROLINA BOOKWATCH.

SO THEY WERE AT HOME AND I THINK IT WAS AN EXPERIMENT THAT WORKED OUT VERY WELL.

- I'M GLAD YOU DID IT.

- THE, ONE OF THE HIGHLIGHTS OF IT, OF COURSE, WAS WHEN WE PERSUADED MELINDA TO SING A SONG ABOUT BEING PROUD TO BE A LUMBEE, A SONG THAT HAD WRITTEN BY HER LATE HUSBAND.

AND SHE JUST KIND OF DID IT, SANG IT ON THE SPOT.

AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE HIGHLIGHTS OF THE WHOLE SERIES OF BOOKWATCH.

WE JUST GOT A MINUTE, BUT I'VE GOT ONE QUESTION.

- OKAY.

- YOU WENT TO SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA BECAME A FILM DOCUMENTARY, FILM.

WHY'D YOU COME BACK?

- I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA.

AND I ALSO, I CAME BACK BECAUSE I LOVE TO WRITE, AND I LOVE TO READ, AND THERE'S NO RICHER MATERIAL TO WRITE ABOUT THAN, THAN LUMBEE HISTORY.

- WELL, WILL YOU GIVE US MORE LUMBEE HISTORY IN ANOTHER BOOK OR ARE YOU THROUGH?

- I HOPE SO.

I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW YET.

I'M KINDA GONNA RESERVE JUDGMENT AND WAIT AND SEE HOW OTHERS RESPOND TO THIS BOOK.

- I WANT YOU TO TELL ME ONE MORE THING, AND THAT IS YOUR LATE HUSBAND WROTE A SONG ABOUT THE LUMBEE.

- PROUD TO BE A LUMBEE INDIAN.

- CAN YOU RECITE IT?

- YES.

♪ I'M PROUD TO BE A LUMBEE INDIAN ♪ ♪ YES I AM ♪ ♪ WHEN I GROW UP INTO THIS WORLD ♪ ♪ I'M GONNA BE JUST WHAT I AM ♪ ♪ MY MOTHER AND FATHER ARE PROUD OF ME ♪ ♪ THEY WANT ME TO BE FREE, ♪ ♪ FREE TO BE ANYTHING I WANT TO BE.

♪ - ALL RIGHT, I'VE GOT TO STOP.

MELINDA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING OUR GUEST ON NORTH CAROLINA BOOKWATCH.

- MY PLEASURE.

- AND THANKS AGAIN FOR BEING SUCH A WONDERFUL GUEST HOST.

- THANK YOU, - LAST YEAR.

- I ENJOYED IT.

- WELL, WE'RE A DIVERSE STATE WITH DIVERSE LITERATURE, AND I THINK WE SHOULD HEAD FOR THE BARN PERHAPS WITH, GET SOME THOUGHTS FROM YOU ABOUT HOW A MULTI-ETHNIC STATE, AN IMMIGRANT STATE, WILL LOOK IN ITS LITERATURE, AND SEEM IN ITS LITERATURE IN THE FUTURE.

DO YOU SEE ANY TRENDS THERE?

- WELL, I'M NOT AN EXPERT AT SEEING THOSE TRENDS.

LEE SMITH HELPED ME UNDERSTAND THIS BY EXPLAINING THAT SOUTHERN LITERATURE IS NOT JUST THE WAY THE SOUTH WAS 50 YEARS AGO OR 100 YEARS AGO, 150 YEARS AGO, THAT IT IS, IT INVOLVES THE CONTRIBUTIONS OF THE MULTI-ETHNIC STATE THAT WE NOW HAVE.

WE, I THINK WE'VE DONE A GOOD JOB OF REACHING OUT.

I THINK WE WISH WE'D DONE AN EVEN BETTER JOB OF BRINGING IN NORTH CAROLINIANS WHO HAVE ROOTS IN OTHER, OTHER PLACES, BUT WE'VE GOT PEOPLE WHO, WHOSE FAMILIES CAME FROM INDIA, WHOSE FAMILIES CAME FROM PALESTINE, AS WELL AS THE, A LITTLE REPRESENTATION FROM OUR LATINO GROWING POPULATION.

AND TO THE EXTENT THAT AFRICAN-AMERICANS ARE VIEWED AS NOT PART OF THE REGULAR THING THAT THEY ARE VIEWED KIND OF AS IMMIGRANTS, WHICH THEY'RE NOT, THEY'VE BEEN HERE LONGER THAN MOST, THEIR FAMILIES HAVE BEEN HERE LONGER THAN MOST OTHER FAMILIES.

BUT NORTH CAROLINA IS, HAS REALLY THE BENEFIT OF SOME GREAT, TALENTED WRITERS, LIKE RANDALL KENAN, WHO HAPPENED TO BE AFRICAN-AMERICAN.

YOUR SON'S GOT SOME OTHER TALENT, DOES HE?

- HE DOES.

HE'S A POET.

AND HE'S GOT A GREAT POEM ABOUT AFRICAN-AMERICAN ART.

- LET'S LISTEN TO IT.

JEFFERY, IT'S ALL YOURS.

- THANK YOU.

YOU SEE I'M STRIVING TO START MOVEMENTS LIKE I'M A YOUNG ROMARE BEARDEN.

I GOT A COUPLE OF LEGENDARY COOL CATS IN MY CIRCLE, BUT ME, HONESTLY, I'M STILL WORKING TO GROW THIS BEARD IN.

I'M BLACK LIKE EXPLOITATION FILMS.

I'M BAD LIKE MIKE JACK AND I'M RELEVANT LIKE AFRICOBRA SO I'VE NEVER EVER HAD MY MIC JACKED [IMITATES MICHAEL JACKSON] YOU SEE, I GOT BIT AND I STARTED ABSORBING BLACK VENOM THE MOMENT I SHOOK HANDS WITH PROFESSOR PHILLIPS AND PROFESSOR ANDERSON.

NOW I'M INFUSING MY ART WITH BLACK POWER AS I MOVE MY HAND AND BLEND AND EACH STROKE THAT I MAKE WILL REDEFINE THE WAY THAT YOU SEE AS I PRACTICE MY BLACKNESS ON CANVAS LIKE THE ARTISTS OF THE WAY YOU SEE.

YOU SEE, IT WAS OUR ANCESTORS GUIDING ME MELANIN DRIPPING AS I WROTE THIS ON LOOSE LEAF AND I WOULD HAVE GIVEN SARAH BAARTMAN TWO SEATS BECAUSE I KNOW SHE WAS SO TIRED OF STANDING AND BEING EXAMINED NOW LOOK HOW FAR WE'VE COME WE'VE GOT POWERFUL, CREATIVE, SMART WOMEN WHERE WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW, PLANNING ON CREATING ART UNTIL THE HIDDEN TRUTHS SEEN.

OVER THE COURSE OF MY STUDIES AT HOWARD, MY MIND SLOWLY SPIRALED INTO A NEW SCHEME AND I STARTED REPLACING MY BAD HABITS AS I WOKE UP INTO A NEW DREAM.

NOW I'M A MIX OF MARTIN, A MALCOLM, I'M A DASH OF MARCUS GARVEY, I'M BIGGIE, TUPAC, BASQUIAT WITH A WHOLE BRASH ARTIST ARMY.

I'M STANDING WITH MY TRIBE WORKING TOGETHER LIKE THE KAMOINGE WORKSHOP DEMANDING THE HURT STOP DISMANTLING YOUR THOUGHTS SURE AS THE PLANETS CORE'S HOT.

AND THIS PLAN IT'S A SURE SHOT RESPECT TO ROY DE KIROV AND JAMES HINTON I GUESS THAT MY BRAIN IS HINTING THAT IF WE DON'T CARRY THE TORCH ON THE FUTURE OF BLACK ARTS FRAME'S GONNA BE MISSING.

BECAUSE IT'S UP TO US TO CARRY ON THE LEGACY OF THE BLACK ART AESTHETIC SOMEONE HAS THE RECIPE TO SUCCESS AND I SUGGEST WE LOOK WHERE WE LAST READ IT.

SOME THEY SAY THAT I HAVE DELUSIONS OF GRANDEUR AND I JUST SAY, WHAT'S WRONG WITH HAVING CHANGE THE WORLD WRITTEN ON EVERY SINGLE PAGE IN YOUR PLANNER?

THANK YOU.

- AND YOU'VE HAD ETAF RUM, PALESTINIAN AMERICAN ON THE SHOW.

- YEAH, ETAF RUM IS A STORY IN HERSELF.

SHE GREW UP IN A PALESTINIAN FAMILY IN, IN BROOKLYN.

AND SO, AND WONDERFUL DESCRIPTION OF WHAT THE CHALLENGES ARE FOR SOMEONE GROWING UP IN THAT ENVIRONMENT.

AND THEN SHE CAME DOWN TO NORTH CAROLINA, WENT TO, WITH HER ASSIGNED HUSBAND, WENT TO NORTH CAROLINA STATE AND CAME BACK TO TEACH AT HER COMMUNITY COLLEGE IN ROCKY MOUNT.

AND FOR ME, THIS WAS SUCH A GREAT STORY THAT, LIKE BETTY SMITH, SHE, BETTY SMITH, CAME TO NORTH CAROLINA TO WRITE ABOUT GROWING UP IN BROOKLYN AND SO DID ETAF.

SHE COULDN'T WRITE UNTIL SHE FOUND A PLACE IN NORTH CAROLINA.

SO THESE ARE NORTH CAROLINA WRITERS WHO BROADENED OUR EXPERIENCE IN SEEING HOW OTHER COMMUNITIES LIVE.

- ANNETTE CLAPSADDLE OF CHEROKEE.

- WELL, - AS SHE SAID, AS FAR AS SHE CAN TELL, SHE'S THE FIRST CHEROKEE TO BE A NOVELIST.

- FIRST EASTERN BRANCH OF THE CHEROKEES AND WHAT A PERSON, WHAT A WRITER SHE IS AS SHE HELPS US UNDERSTAND THAT, AT LEAST IN WORLD WAR II, INDIANS WERE ASSIGNED TO THE BALCONIES WHEN THEY WENT TO MOVIES IN ASHEVILLE.

- WE SHOULD NOTE, AS WELL, THAT OUR CURRENT POET LAUREATE IS ONLY THE THIRD WOMAN AND THE FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICAN TO SERVE AS POET LAUREATE, JACKI SHELTON GREEN, ALSO A GUEST ON THE SHOW.

AND WHEN SHE WAS APPOINTED, THE GOVERNOR SAID, HER APPOINTMENT, THIS IS GOVERNOR COOPER TALKING, IS A WONDERFUL, NEW CHAPTER IN NORTH CAROLINA'S RICH LITERARY HISTORY.

AND THAT'S A PRETTY MAGNIFICENT AND TRUE STATEMENT.

- YEAH.

WELL, SHE'S CERTAINLY GAINED THE RESPECT AND ATTENTION OF EVERY NORTH CAROLINIAN THAT SHE CAME IN CONTACT WITH.

EITHER THROUGH HER OWN POETRY OR THROUGH HER PROMOTION OF OTHER NORTH CAROLINA WRITERS WHO MIGHT NOT HAVE GOTTEN ATTENTION FROM US IF IT HADN'T BEEN FOR HER.

- DG, SHE TOLD A STORY, NOT TOO LONG AGO, SHE SAID SHE WAS DOING A POETRY READING, SHE HAD BEEN INVITED BY A GROUP AT, I THINK IT WAS A WAFFLE HOUSE.

AND SHE SAID, WELL, THAT SOUNDED UNUSUAL.

SO SHE WENT AND DID IT, AND SEVERAL MEN CAME IN AND ASKED HER IF THEY COULD GET A PICTURE WITH HER WHEN THEY REALIZED WHO SHE WAS.

THEY WERE ALL WEARING RED MAGA HATS AND HER GROUP THAT INVITED HER THERE SAID, YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET A PICTURE WITH THEM.

AND SHE SAID, YES, I AM.

I'M THE POET LAUREATE OF ALL THE PEOPLE.

AND THEY TOOK THEIR HATS OFF FOR THE PICTURE.

AND THEY, THEY TURNED TO HER AFTER THE SHOTS WERE TAKEN, AND THEY SAID, YOU DO US PROUD.

- WOW.

- WONDERFUL STORY - THAT'S A GREAT, GREAT STORY.

- WELL, I WANNA CONCLUDE BY READING A COMMENT FROM CHARLES FRAZIER.

HE SAID, "I'M NOT ALONE IN THINKING THAT DG MARTIN'S WORK ON BOOKWATCH FOR OVER TWO DECADES HAS BEEN A GREAT GIFT TO THE LITERARY LIFE, CULTURE OF OUR STATE.

HE HAS BEEN AN INVALUABLE FORCE IN INTRODUCING A COUPLE OF GENERATIONS OF WRITERS TO AN AUDIENCE OF BOOK READERS."

AND I'LL ADD TO CHARLES FRAZIER'S REMARK, "IN DOING SO, THROUGH OUR LITERATURE AND THOSE WHO CREATE IT, YOU'VE BEEN INTRODUCING OUR CHANGING NORTH CAROLINA TO ITSELF.

- BLAND, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING AND SHARING THIS TIME WITH US.

THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR GREAT WORKS.

NOT JUST YOUR BOOKS, BUT YOUR MUSIC, MAYBE, ESPECIALLY YOUR MUSIC.

- THANK YOU MY FRIEND.

- AND SO I'M VERY HONORED THAT YOU'D BE WILLING TO LEAD THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT THE HISTORY OF NORTH CAROLINA BOOKWATCH.

- IT'S WHAT I CALL A BIG TIME.

- WELL, THANKS TO BLAND SIMPSON FOR BEING OUR GUEST AND GUEST HOST ON NORTH CAROLINA BOOKWATCH.

AND AS ALWAYS, THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR TUNING IN AND WATCHING.

AND I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU SOON.

[PIANO MUSIC] ♪ OH, I RECKON ♪ ♪ I DON'T MIND TALKING THIS WAY ♪ ♪ I SAID, OH I RECKON ♪ ♪ I DON'T MIND TALKING ♪ ♪ I'M GOING ON A SOUND SIDE ♪ ♪ SOUND SIDE ♪ ♪ SO IS MY WIFE ♪ ♪ SO IS MY WIFE ♪ ♪ SOUND SIDE ♪ ♪ OH, SOUND SIDE LIFE ♪ ♪ NO TELLING ♪ ♪ TELLING ME IT'S BETTER OUT THERE ♪ ♪ I SAID, NO TELLING ♪ ♪ TELLING ME IT'S BETTER ♪ ♪ I LIVE ON THE SOUND SIDE ♪ ♪ SOUND SIDE ♪ ♪ SO'S MY WIFE ♪ ♪ SO'S MY WIFE ♪ ♪ SOUND SIDE ♪ ♪ OH, SOUND SIDE LIFE ♪ ♪ WHEN THE WIND STARTS BLOWING ♪ ♪ AND THE WHITECAPS SHOWING ♪ ♪ WELL YOU BETTER START STOWING AWAY ♪ ♪ IF YOU'RE OUT IN THE OPEN ♪ ♪ WELL YOU BETTER START HOPING ♪ ♪ THAT THE STORM AIN'T SLOPPING YOUR WAY ♪ ♪ HERE IS THE MARSH IS WHERE I ALWAYS HIDE ♪ ♪ IF YOU'RE OUT ON A BEACH ♪ ♪ AND THE STORMS IN REACH WHEREVER YOU ARE ♪ ♪ IT'S NOT THAT FAR ♪ ♪ HOP IN YOUR CAR ♪ ♪ HOP IN YOUR CAR ♪ ♪ AND GET ROLLING ♪ ♪ ROLL ON DOWN TO SEE ME SOMETIME ♪ ♪ GET ROLLING ♪ ♪ ROLL ON DOWN TO SEE ♪ ♪ I LIVE ON THE SOUND SIDE ♪ ♪ SOUND SIDE ♪ ♪ SO'S MY WIFE ♪ ♪ SO'S MY WIFE ♪ ♪ SOUND SIDE ♪ ♪ OH, SOUND SIDE LIFE ♪ ♪ SOUND SIDE ♪ ♪ WHOA, SOUND SIDE OF LIFE ♪ [DG AND WOMAN CLAPPING] - LITTLE RIVERS - I BROUGHT MY GUITAR, WANT ME TO DO A LITTLE SOMETHING?

- YEAH - IS THIS A GOOD TIME TO MAYBE PULL IT OUT?

- LET'S PULL OUT YOUR GUITAR AND SHARE WITH US, HAVE YOU GOT A SONG THAT RELATES TO THE CHARACTER?

- I DO.

I HAVE A LITTLE SONG THAT I'VE DONE ON OCCASION THAT IS FROM THE DISNEY MOVIE.

MY OWN LITTLE VERSION OF THAT SONG, "GOT NO STRINGS ON ME".

SO, I'LL THROW A LITTLE SHORT VERSION AT YOU FOR THAT.

[ACOUSTIC GUITAR PLAYS] ♪ GOT NO STRINGS TO HOLD ME DOWN ♪ ♪ MAKE ME FRET ♪ ♪ MAKE ME FROWN ♪ ♪ I'VE HAD STRINGS, ♪ ♪ BUT NOW I SEE ♪ ♪ I GOT NOT STRINGS ON ME ♪ - WOW.

WELL, THE MUSIC IS FANTASTIC.

AND THANKS FOR SHARING THAT WITH US.

[OBOE MUSIC] - [NARRATOR] QUALITY PUBLIC TELEVISION IS MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTIONS OF VIEWERS LIKE YOU, WHO INVITE YOU TO JOIN THEM IN SUPPORTING PBS NC.