>>> TURNING TO A CRISIS PLAGUING HEALTH CARE HERE IN THE UNITED STATES WHERE THE NUMBER OF PHYSICIANS IS DWINDLING DRASTICALLY.
IN 2021 ALONE, AROUND 117,000 LEFT THE WORK FORCE AND ONE IN FIVE DOCTORS SAY THEY PLAN TO LEAVE IN THE COMING YEARS IN HIS RECENT OPINION, PHYSICIAN EXPLAINS THE FLAWS OF THE SYSTEM AND JOINS MICHELLE MARTIN TO DISCUSS THE POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS TO THIS WORRYING TREND.
DOCTOR, THANKS FOR TALKING TO US TODAY.
>> MY PLEASURE.
THANK YOU.
>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A REALLY POWERFUL AND I WOULD HAVE TO SAY DISTURBING ESSAY THAT YOU -- THAT WAS PUBLISHED IN THE "NEW YORK TIMES."
WILL YOU SAY THAT WE TALK A LOT ABOUT HOW DOCTORS AND OTHER MEDICAL PERSONNEL ARE BURNED OUT.
BUT YOU SAY THEY'RE NOT BURNED OUT, THEY'RE DEMORALIZED.
TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.
WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?
>> DOCTORS HAVE WORKED HARD FOR A VERY LONG TIME IN THE U.S.
THEY HAVE BEEN OVER WORKED AND BEEN EXPLOITED BY MEDICAL SYSTEMS.
IN THE LAST COUPLE DECADES DOCTORS' WORKING HOURS DECLINED.
THE PANDEMIC DISRUPTED OUR IMPRESSION OF THE SYSTEM FOR WHICH WE WORK.
I THINK ONE OF THE MOST DEMORALIZING THINGS, THE THINGS THAT LEAD TO WHAT IS REFERRED TO AS BURNOUT IS WHEN THIS SYSTEM THAT YOU WORK FOR IS NOT SERVING THE ENDS THAT IT CLAIMS TO SERVE, WE AS DOCTORS WANT TO SERVE OUR PATIENTS.
I REALLY BELIEVE THAT ABOUT THE COLLEAGUES WITH WHOM I WORK AND WE'RE CONSTANTLY FAILING THEM NOT THROUGH LACK OF EFFORT ON OUR PART BUT BECAUSE OUR HEALTH SYSTEM AND WELFARE SYSTEMS ARE NOT SET UP TO ALLOW US TO SUCCEED AND DOCTORS HAVE PLAYED A VERY LARGE PART IN PRODUCING THAT REALITY OVER A LONG HISTORICAL PERIOD.
WE HAVE IN SOME SENSE ALLOWED OURSELVES TO BE PAID OFF.
WE HAVE HIGHEST IN THE WORLD COMPENSATION FOR PHYSICIANS.
AND WE WORK IN THE LEAST EFFECTIVE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN THE WORLD AMONG WEALTHY NATIONS.
WE HAVE DRAMATICALLY POOR MORTALITY FOR EXAMPLE THAN PURE -- PEER NATIONS.
>> SO IN A WAY YOU'RE SAYING THERE IS A BIG LIE AT THE HEART OF PROFESSION.
I MEAN, WE'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT HOW NURSES AND OTHER MEDICAL PERSONNEL ARE LEAVING THE FIELD.
NURSES IN PARTICULAR HAVE GOTTEN A LOT OF ATTENTION BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANPANDEMIC.
YOU'RE SAYING NURSES ARE LEAVING THE FIELD.
IF THEY HAVEN'T, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT IT.
WHY NOW?
>> I THINK WHY ALL OF THESE GROUPS ARE NOW UNABLE TO SUSTAIN THE BELIEF THEY HAVE IN THE SYSTEM, SOME MARGINAL BELIEF, THE PANDEMIC ACCELERATED DEATH BUREAUCRATICALLY ORDAINED DEATH.
THEY PUT IT AT A RATE WE NEVER SEEN BEFORE.
THERE WAS A STUDY AT THE NATIONAL ACADEMY OF TOP SCIENCE JOURNAL THAT ESTIMATED 338,000 LIVES COULD HAVE BEEN SAVED HAD WE HAD A UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN THE U.S. LIKE EVERY OTHER INDUSTRY IN THE WORLD HAS.
WHEN YOU'RE WORKING AS A DOCTOR OR A NURSE OR A STAFF MEMBER AT A NURSING HOME AND YOU'RE SEEING DEATH AFTER DEATH THAT DID NOT HAVE TO HAPPEN AND YOU'RE READING ABOUT IT CONSTANTLY IN THE NEWS, THE NEW YORK TIMES IS PUBLISHING EXPO AFTER EXPO AND WHO IS PROFITING FROM AND DELIBERATELY DESIGNING SYSTEMS TO PRODUCE THESE OUTCOMES, THIS IS -- HAS LED TO WHAT I CALL IN THE ESSAY A COLLAPSE OF AMERICAN MEDICAL IDEOLOGY THAT IS THE STORIES THAT WE HAVE TOLD OURSELVES ABOUT OURSELVES FOR SO LONG THAT SUSTAINED OUR MOTIVATION DESPITE POOR WORKING CONDITIONS, DESPITE THE FACT THAT TRAINING AND NURSES AND DOCTORS ARE EXPLOITED BY THIS SYSTEM, WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SUSTAIN SOME BELIEVE THAT OUR WORK MATTERED.
THAT IT WAS PART OF A MORAL ENTERPRISE.
I THINK THAT VISION OF OURSELVES IS COLLAPSING NOW.
>> YOU CALL IT CORRUPTION.
WHY DO YOU USE THAT WORD?
IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE THIS IS THE WAY IT DESIGNED TO WORK IN A WAY EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT IT'S NOW COLLAPSING.
>> I DON'T MEAN CORRUPTION IN LEGAL TERMS PER SE.
BUT I THINK WHAT YOU HAVE IS A FIELD THAT IS ENTIRELY INCONSISTENT WITH THE ETHICAL VALUES IT HOLDS UP.
IF YOU GO THROUGH MEDICAL SCHOOLS IN THE U.S., YOU'LL HEAR IN EVERY MEDICAL SCHOOL YOU MIGHT ATTEND LONG SPEECHES ABOUT HEALTH EQUITY, HEALTH JUSTICE, HOW THIS IS WHAT OUR INSTITUTION IS DESIGNED TO SERVE AND YOU WORK IN THE HOSPITALS.
I'VE HAD EXPERIENCES LIKE THIS.
YOU SEE THE POLICIES THAT DICTATE WHO COMES INTO THIS HOSPITAL, WHAT KIND OF CARE THEY GET, WHAT KIND OF AFTER CARE THEY DON'T GET IS NOT GUIDED BY THE IDEAS OF HEALTH EQUITY OR HEALTH JUICE OR EVEN CARE.
IT'S GUIDED BY A GOAL OF MAXIMIZING REVENUE AND IN MANY CASES PROFIT.
>> SO LET'S JUST TAKE IT AT THE CORE OF IT, YOU SAY IS THE FOR PROFIT MODEL.
AT THE CORE OF IT IS THAT AMERICAN HEALTH CARE IS PRIMARILY DELIVERED THROUGH FOR PROFIT MECHANISMS, EVEN INSTITUTIONS THAT ARE NOT FOR PROFIT, RIGHT?
THEY'RE STILL OPERATING UNDER A PROFIT MOTIVE, RIGHT?
AND SO YOUR ARGUMENT IS THAT THIS LEADS TO FUNDAMENTALLY TERRIBLE OUTCOMES THAT PATIENTS GET INFERIOR CARE AND MEDICAL PERSONNEL DOCTORS INCLUDED JUST CAN'T BASICALLY KIND OF KEEP UP.
THEY CAN'T FULFILL THEIR ETHICAL OBLIGATION TO CARE FOR PEOPLE BECAUSE OF THAT.
TELL ME WHY YOU'RE SO CONVINCED THAT THAT IS AT THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM.
>> YOU KNOW, THERE'S A TRADITION THAT I COME OUT OF CALLED SOCIAL MEDICINE FOUNDED BY THIS PATHOLOGIST IN GERMANY.
RUDOLPH.
HE WENT AND STUDIED AN EPIDEMIC AT THE TIME.
HE'S A SPECIALIST IN PATHOLOGY.
THE FIRST THING THAT HE REALIZED WHEN HE GOT THERE AND YOU'RE STUDYING THIS EPIDEMIC IS THAT IT WASN'T HIS PATHOLOGICAL BUT LABOR CONDITIONS.
THEY ARE HEALTH.
THE U.S. MEDICAL PROFESSION FASHIONED ITSELF FOR A HALF CENTURY OVER SUP PRESSING THE AWARENESS AND THE PRODUCT OF POLICY DECISIONS AND IF WE DO NOT ENGAGE IN POLITICAL STRUGGLE TO ADVANCE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR OUR PATIENTS, WE CANNOT FULFILL OUR ETHICAL OBLIGATIONS.
THIS IS AN OBVIOUS REALITY.
THIS IS TRUE EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD.
U.S. DOCTORS HISTORICALLY HAVE REFUSED THIS.
IN MY VIEW, ETHICS AND MEDICINE OR ANY SCENE IN LIFE HAS TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO THE EFFECTS.
IF YOUR ETHICAL FRAME WORK IS PRODUCING EFFECTS THAT KILL PEOPLE WHO DO NOT NEED TO DIE, SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ARE DEPRIVED OF CARE BECAUSE THEY CANNOT PAY, THAT IN MY VIEW IS NOT AN ETHICAL SYSTEM.
ETHICS WITHOUT A PAIRED POLITICS TO ADVANCE THE IDEAS YOU CLAIM TO SUBSCRIBE TO IS LARGELY MEANINGLESS AND IN LARGE WAYS NEXT TO NOTHING.
>> WHY ARE YOU SO CONVINCED THAT'S AT THE CORE OF THE PROBLEM AS OPPOSED TO DECOUPLING HEALTH INSURANCE TO YOUR JOB.
BY SOME STANDARD THAT WOULD BE UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE.
SO PEOPLE DO THINK THEY ARE UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE BECAUSE THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT AND ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE WHO DIDN'T HAVE IT BEFORE, MILLIONS OF PEOPLE DO.
WHY IN YOUR VIEW HAS THAT NOT FIXED THE PROBLEM.
>> TO CLEAR UP THE LAST POINT.
YOU'RE RIGHT THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT EXPANDED HEALTH CARE ACCESS.
THERE ARE STILL OVER 30 MILLION AMERICANS WHO DO NOT HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE AND CONTINUOUS HEALTH CARE ACCESS.
THEY CAN ONLY GET ACCESS THROUGH EMERGENCY DEPARTMENTS AND IT'S VERY SUBSTANDARD CARE AND BROKEN UP AND VERY INEFFECTIVE AND LEADS TO A LOT OF MEDICAL ERRORS AND THE FACT PEOPLE WHO HAVE INSURANCE ARE UNDER INSURED.
I WORK AT A HOSPITAL WHERE I CAN'T TREAT A LOT OF PATIENTS WHO COME IN WITH CERTAIN KINDS OF INSURANCE.
I HAVE TO REFER THEM OUT.
SOMETIMES IT TAKES DAYS TO BE TRANSFERRED FROM THE EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT TO A HOSPITAL.
THAT'S NOT UNIQUE TO MY HOSPITAL.
I'M NOT A FAN OF THE POLICY.
THAT'S TRUE AT COUNTLESS HOSPITALS AROUND THE COUNTRY.
SIMPLY THE FACT OF INSURANCE COVERAGE DOES NOT ENSURE GOOD CARE AND THE FUNDAMENTAL ROOT OF WHAT DETERMINES CARE, STRUCTURE AND ALL OF THESE CONTEXT IS REVENUE MOTIVATION.
AND THAT IS A FOR PROFIT PHARMA SYSTEM, INSURANCE SYSTEM.
THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT EXPANDED ACCESS WHICH IS IMPORTANT AND MORE DEEPLY ENTRENCHED THE INSURANCE STRUCTURE TO HAVE PRIVATE INSURANCE THAT IS MAKING MONEY OFF OF THIS SO ENHANCED INSURANCE COMPANY PROFITS SUBSTANTIALLY.
WHAT YOU SEEN DURING THE PANDEMIC FOR EXAMPLE, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE HAVE DIED UNNECESSARILY ARE RECORD PROFITS IN MANY HOSPITALS IN THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY AND INSURANCE INDUSTRY.
WHAT WE HAVE IS A FUNDAMENTAL DECOUPLING OF HEALTH CARE OF ACTUAL CARE AND HEALTH OUTCOMES WITH -- AND THE GOALS OF THE SYSTEM.
>> AND YOU REALLY POINT THE IF I THINK -- FINGER AT DOCTORS.
YOUR ARGUMENT AT CORE IS DOCTORS ARE TO BLAME FOR NEED, DESIRE FOR STATUS AND MONEY.
IS THAT FAIR.
>> I AM A DOCTOR.
WHEN YOU'RE PART OF A POWERFUL INSTITUTION IS TO HOLD IT ACCOUNTABLE.
I'LL CALL OUT MY COLLEAGUES.
THERE IS AN EXCELLENT ARTICLE IN THE NEW YORKER.
PART OF WHAT HE SAYS IS DOCTORS ARE RESISTANT TO THE IDEA THEY SHOULD BE ORGANIZED TO CARE.
WE'VE BEEN ORGANIZING TO ENHANCE OUR INCOME AND ENHANCE OUR POLITICAL POWER.
THIS IS TRUE.
IF YOUR STUDY THE HISTORY OF U.S. MEDICINE, YOU CAN SEE FROM THE 1930s AND 40s IN CALIFORNIA AND THEN PASSES TO THE AMA, AND BECOME A VERY POWERFUL INSTITUTION AND LESS POWERFUL NOW.
THOSE SYSTEMS WERE PUT IN PLACE TO PROTECT AMERICAN DOCTORS AGAINST THE SOCIALIZED MEDICINE EVEN AS THE PEOPLE WHO WERE SAYING WE NEED TO KEEP AWAY FROM THIS RECOGNIZE THAT IT WOULD LEAD TO IMPROVE PATIENT OUTCOMES AND CARE BUT THEIR CONCERN IS IT REDUCES DOCTOR'S INCOME AND STATUS AND MIGHT MAKE THEN SECONDARY ACTORS RATHER THAN PRIMARY.
WHAT WE SEE NOW IS A CONSEQUENCE OF THAT AND HEALTH SYSTEMS.
THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF HEALTH IN ANY DONE TEXT AND NATIONAL CONTEXT IS NOT HEALTH CARE IT'S THE PREVENTIVE SYSTEMS THAT SUPPLY THE BASIS FOR PUBLIC HEALTH.
THOSE ARE FUNDAMENTALLY ENTER WOVEN WITH BASIC SOCIAL SERVICES LIKE HOUSING, ET CETERA.
WHAT YOU HAVE IS A MEDICAL PROFESSION THAT ADVOCATED FOR ITSELF FOR SO LONG AND OBTAIN SOD MUCH POWER AND IT HAS CAN -- CANNIBALIZED PUBLIC HEALTH.
DOCTORS ARE LEADINGEXPERTS.
80 TO 90% OF RELATIVE KNOWLEDGE IS NOT WITHIN THE MEDICAL FIELD.
IT'S NO LABOR HISTORY, SOCIOLOGY, COMMUNICATIONS, ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCE.
WHY ARE THESE PEOPLE AND IT'S ALSO IN THE KNOWLEDGE THAT COMMUNITY WHOSE ARE EXCLUDED FROM OUR CURRENT SYSTEM HAVE ABOUT THE OBSTACLES THEY FACE.
THEY KNOW HOW TO DESIGN SYSTEMS FROM THE BOTTOM UP, WHICH IS HOW YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO DESIGN PUBLIC HEALTH SYSTEMS TO BE EFFECTIVE.
>> THERE IS A GROUP OF DOCTORS THAT HAS BEEN SAYING THIS FOR A VERY LONG TIME.
THEY'RE BLACK DOCTORS.
OKAY?
BLACK DOCTORS LIKE IN THE NATIONAL MEDICAL ASSOCIATION FORMED BECAUSE THE AMA, THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION WOULDN'T ALLOW BLACK DOCTORS TO JOIN AND SOME CASES THEY EXCLUDED THEM FROM PRIVILEGES AT WHITE HOSPITALS.
BLACK DOCTORS HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR QUITE SOMETIME.
IN FACT, FOR DECADES.
WHY HAVEN'T THE OTHER FOLKS IN THE PROFESSION LISTENED TO THEM.
>> THIS COULD BE AN IMPORTANT POINT.
WHENEVER YOU DESIGN ANY SYSTEM, YOU HAVE TO DESIGN IT FROM THE BOTTOM UP.
NOT JUST PUBLIC HEALTH.
TO MAKE IT BE ETHICAL AND ACCOUNTABLE, IT SHOULD BE LOOKING AT THOSE WITH HISTORICALLY THE MOST EXCLUDED AND EMPOWERING THEM TO LEAD THE FIELD FOR IT TO BE LESS EXCLUSIVE AND BETTER.
I THINK BLACK DOCTORS IN THE U.S. HAVE A VERY IMPORTANT POSITION AND THEY ARE LEVERAGING IT.
A COLLEAGUE OF MINE ISAMA TO TRY TO PROMOTE HEALTH EQUITY.
THERE ARE LIMITS TO WORKING WITHIN SUCH POWERFUL INSTITUTIONS WHOSE MOTIVATION IS NOT NECESSARILY ANY LINED WITH THIS.
THIS IS WHAT BLACK DOCTORS AND PROGRESSIVE DOCTORS FACE.
WE CAN ADVOCATE BUT IF WE'RE WORKING WITHIN EXTREMELY POWERFUL SYSTEMS AND MAJORITY OF PHYSICIANS DO NOT ACTIVELY JOIN US, IT'S HARD TO UP END THE POWER STRUCTURE AND MUCH EASIER FOR THEM TO ABSORB INTO POSITIONS OF LEADERSHIP AND IN THE PROCESS SILENCE THEM.
I DON'T MEAN THE DOCTORS THEMSELVES HAVE BAD MOTIVATIONS AND REALIZE THIS IS HAPPENING.
THIS IS A STRUCTURAL FORCE.
WE SEE THIS ALL THE TIME.
>> THAT'S WHY YOU ADVOCATE FOR DOCTORS UNIONIZING.
I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU SUGGEST IN YOUR PIECE IS DOCTORS SHOULD UNIONIZE.
I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW THAT ACTUALLY WORKS AND FRANKLY, I AM KERR YOULS HOW YOU OVERCOME THIS CULTURAL RESISTANCE THAT THE PEOPLE CURRENTLY IN THE FIELD HAVE TO THIS.
THEY'RE JUST NOT USED TO THINKING OF THEMSELVES IN THAT WAY SO I'M JUST CURIOUS LIKE WHY YOU THINK UNIONIZING SOLVES THIS PROBLEM.
>> YEAH.
I DON'T.
>> THEY NEED TO ORGANIZE WITH THEIR FIELD AND HEALTH CARE WORKERS.
BEYOND THAT, THEY NEED TO ORGANIZE WITH THE PATIENTS AND COMMUNITIES AND GROUND OURSELVES IN THOSE, NOT IN THE VALUES OF THESE POWERFUL WEALTHY HEALTH CARE INSTITUTIONS PER WHICH WE WORK.
ONE STEP THAT IS IMMEDIATELY ACHIEVABLE THAT DOCTORS CAN TAKE TOWARDS THAT IS ORGANIZE TOGETHER.
>> ARE YOU CONVINCED MOST OF YOUR COLLEAGUES AGREE WITH YOU ON THE PROBLEM?
IF NOT THE SOLUTIONS?
>> I THINK THE DOCTORS OF MY GENERATION, YOUNGER GENERATIONS BY IN LARGE, YES.
THEY AGREE.
I THINK THE DOCTORS WHO HAVE BEEN IN THIS SYSTEM AND REWARDED FOR LOYALTY TO THE SYSTEM FOR A VERY LONG TIME AND I THINK THEY'RE WONDERFUL HUMAN BEINGS, MANY OF THEM.
I DON'T MEAN THEY'RE BAD PEOPLE BUT THERE IS A STRUCTURAL DETERMINATION OF HOW THEY SEE THE WORLD.
THIS IS PART OF MEDICAL IDEOLOGY, THE THING THAT'S COLLAPSING.
THE STORY WE TOLD OURSELVES IS SO CORE TO THE IDENTITY, THEIR MORAL IDENTITY TO THE WORLD AND ETHICALIDENTITY.
WHEN THEY RECOGNIZE THERE IS A LEVEL OF RESPONSIBILITY FOR ENORMOUS HARM THAT'S BEEN DONE, I THINK IT'S VERY DIFFICULT.
I THINK WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO BRING THESE PEOPLE IN IN A WAY THAT'S GENTLE IN SOME KIND OF WAY AND ALSO BEING VERY HARD ABOUT THE REALITY WE HAVE TO FACE AND DO THIS NOT JUST FOR OUR MORAL INTEGRITY BUT BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE DYING LITERALLY EVERY DAY WE REFUSE TO CONFRONT THIS.
>> DR. REINHART, DOCTOR SHOWS ARE A STAPLE OF TELEVISION.
DOCTOR SHOWS ON TELEVISION ARE JUST FILLED WITH THESE KINDS OF STORY LINES.
YOU KNOW, THEY'RE FILLED WITH THE IDEALISTIC YOUNG DOCTOR WHO COMES IN AND SAYS WELL, THIS ISN'T RIGHT, YOU KNOW, THIS PERSON NEEDS HEALTH CARE AND I CAN'T DO IT AND THEY FIGHT THE SYSTEM AND THEN THEY GO DOWN IN FLAMES.
IT IS INTERESTING THAT AS A CULTURE WE KIND OF ACCEPT THAT STORY.
BUT WE DON'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
I WAS JUST CURIOUS WHAT YOU THINK OF THAT, IF YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?
>> I THINK IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.
THAT'S A REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT POINT AND I THINK A LOT OF REALLY YOUNG DOCTORS HOLD ONTO THE IDEAS OF EQUITY OR JUSTICE.
THEY HATE IT WHEN THEY HAVE TO EXCLUDE PATIENTS FROM CARE AND THERE IS A DEDICATION TO THE IDEA OF THE GREAT DOCTOR, THE GREAT HUMANITARIAN TO SACRIFICE THEMSELVES AND THIS IS WHY WE'RE EASILY EXPLOITED.
MANY PEOPLE IN THE FIELD ARE VERY IDEALISTIC.
THEY ARE HAPPY TO WORK 120 HOURS A WEEK IF THEY THINK THAT IT MATTERS.
I MEAN, I OFTEN WORK OVER 120 HOURS A WEEK BECAUSE I THINK IT MATTERS.
NOT ALL THAT IS CLINICAL.
BUT THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS SOMETHING THAT A PHYSICIAN POINTED OUT PART OF THE SOCIAL MEDIA TRADITION.
HE GAVE A SPEECH IN 1960, WE CALL THE REVOLUTIONARY MEDICINE, HE DESCRIBED HIS OWN BIOGRAPHY AND HE SAID I TRAIN AS A DOCTOR AND HAD THIS VISION OF MYSELF WHO REDEEMED THE WORLD IN FRONT OF ME AND OVER TIME, I REALIZED THAT THAT FANTASY IS PART OF THE PROBLEM.
IT'S NOT INDIVIDUAL HEROES WHO ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THE WORK THAT WE NEED TO DO.
WE HAVE TO BIND TOGETHER AS A COLLECTIVE AND NOT JUST AS A COLLECTIVE OF DOCTORS BUT A COLLECTIVE WELL BEYOND THAT.
OUR RIGHTS ABOUT THE ENTIRE POPULATION WORKING ON ITSELF, THAT WOULD BE CARING FOR IT AND REVOLUTIONARY MEDICINE.
YOU CAN'T HAVE REVOLUTIONARY MEDICINE FROM A SINGLE DOCTOR OR HOSPITAL.
IT HAS TO BE A COLLECTIVE MOBILIZATION.
>> IS THERE ANY PART OF YOU THAT'S BURNED OUT AND DEMORALIZED AND IF SO, WHAT DO YOU SAY TO YOURSELF TO GET UP IN THE MORNING?
>> IT'S THOSE RELATIONSHIPS WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING EVERY DAY TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEMS THAT I'M THINKING ABOUT ALL THE TIME EVEN AS I WORK IN THE HOSPITAL AND CAN'T ADDRESS THEM.
IT'S MY RELATIONSHIPS FROM MY DECADE OF WORK IN THE SOUTH AND WEST SIDES OF CHICAGO AND PEOPLE SUFFERING FROM HEALTH CARE EXCLUSION, WHO CAN'T GET ACCESS TO HOUSING.
I LEAVE THE HOSPITAL AND I AM DEMORALIZED VERY OFTEN.
I'M FRUSTRATED I COULDN'T DO BETTER BY MY PATIENTS AND DON'T HAVE THE RESOURCES AND THEN I GET A CALL FROM SOMEBODY THAT WANTS ME TO VISIT THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE HAVING A DIFFICULT DAY.
THAT IS WHAT GIVES ME A SENSE OF MEANING AND CONTINUATION.
SO I THINK THAT'S HOW WE COUNTER DEMORALIZATION.
WE BOND TOGETHER IN RELATIONSHIPS AND COLLECTIVE MOVEMENTS TO MAKE THINGS BETTER.
>> THANKS FOR TALKING WITH US TODAY.
>> THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
