Representative, Welcome bac to our Off the Record Overtime Let me ask you, you and I were chatting earlier about politics is really about relationships.

My history, if I'm wrong here.

At one point, did you try to think to head a movement to get Matt Hall out of the leadership pos in the Republican House Party?

I haven't that that's not that's no secret.

We running against each other for speaker and he won.

So I'm glad I'm glad he is where he is.

He's he's been nothing but impressive to me.

But here's my question.

At what point did you wake u one morning, you see, gee, Matt Hall is just the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Matt Hall and I have a relationship that goes back probably to 2014 or 15 or maybe a little bit before then.

And we've ha a great relationship and we just we disagreed on things.

And in the early portion of my legislative career and we're we get along great now and I'm impressed with him.

He's he's he knows what he's doing.

He's a fighter.

And I'm and I got his back.

But my question was, was there a magic moment where you did this flipper was a gradual thing as you watched his behavior.

It was a gradual thing.

As I watched his behavior.

I got a question on roads an obviously there's negotiations.

Hopefully going on.

Do you at any poin would you agree to a compromise and now you're in leadership as vice chair?

Would you agree to a compromise?

25% gas tax increase instead of a 50 cent gas tax increase?

Absolutely not.

No.

Any.

How about any revenue increase?

Would you sign off on any revenue?

Yeah, the revenue increase we're doing right now is we're taking the money as opposed to on the roads in the sales tax we're putting on the road instead of all these nonprofits.

Do you support the wholesale marijuana tax increase and the vape increase?

The marijuana industry is dead in Michigan guys its being obliterated.

Wholesale tax increase on that?

No, I'm not.

Support any tax increases.

Let me you guys look, I want to finish.

With the governor has been very clear.

She says no tax increase.

We don't have a deal.

Okay.

Let's talk about tax increases Okay.

Let's talk about budgets.

Okay I want to talk about two states.

We have two sister states in the United States.

Okay.

Georgia and North Carolina, we have the same population.

Each one of those governments in the state level is still providing th same services we are providing.

Okay And let me tell you something.

You're never, never going to forget this.

The listener pay close attention here, okay?

The state of Georgia get so much, they spend less than we do on an annual annual budget than their annual budget.

They spend $20 billion less than we spend in Georgia to run the state government.

North Carolina spend $19 billion less then we spend Is it set up the same as ours?

It doesn't.

In terms of the money flowing to the state.

then out to the schools.

You know, we're spending $8,30 for every man, woman and child to run our state government.

Okay?

There are some states who do it for half.

I've seen you on socia media.

Throw these numbers out.

You know, a lot of what's been driven up in the budget is is expanding health care coverage Are you going to cut that?

No.

President Trump's going to cut all the freeloaders off?

You know, I have an interesting perspective as a bail bondsman, because I know every scam.

I've been doing this for a long time.

I know every single scam in the book.

Okay?

I have people show me how they scam the system.

Okay.

We started when we started Medicaid.

We started with 2 million people on Medicaid.

Okay?

Now we have over 50 millio people in Medicaid since 1974.

Whatever.

Whatever year it started.

Okay.

That is unacceptable.

We have plenty of people, millions of people in this nation and hundreds of thousands of people in the state who are gaming the system.

They're freeloading.

Okay, everyone knows someone who's on SSI who does Who should get Medicaid then?

People who need it, not What does that mean?

People who need it?

Yeah.

Okay.

Like like the guy I was campaigning in Wald Lake or Comerce a couple of years ago, and this guy's unloading his his four year old child out of the back of his van.

The the kid can't move, can't do anything.

And I said, you know, I'm just curious, what kind of benefits do you from the state?

This guy goes something like $1,100 for his kid.

People like that should be making like five grand a month for their kid.

We got all these freeloaders people that choose not to work, who are getting the benefits and jeopardizing the whole system for the people who need it.

Would you be in favo of undoing Medicaid expansion?

Yeah, I think if it was, I think we should under that president.

The big, beautiful bill includes work requirements.

And I think that's that's perfect.

We have all these freeloaders.

There are so many scams, you guys, I wish w could we could have a whole show talking about all these scams.

about taxpayer dollars.

They don't actually show, because Florida, help me through this.

Florida actually di try to put in work requirements.

Right.

And what they found actually was that the administrative costs outweigh like how much.

Left you got.

The left you got.

The leftists are always goin to have an excuse to keep this.

No, no.

This is like Republican Florida.

I'm really trying to understand this.

I'm like, don't me understand that.

It was like something like $75 million more was spent in just sort of the administration of trying to figure out how people that they got.

Talk about Florida and California.

Let's talk about the snap crab benefit.

No can we just, Can we just stay on one topic.

For just one second.

I really we're talking about we're talking about fraud.

We're talking about Medicaid.

No the work requirement issue, like how do you get past the amount of money it takes to administer some of these things?

And then what they find is just the number of people that you're talking about, like absolutely.

That there's fraud like 100%, that they find fraud.

There's fraud in Michigan.

But what they notice is it doesn't outweigh the actual costs.

Maybe they make maybe the initial cost of weeding out all the all the bad actors in the system.

There may be high additional costs, but over time, there's no way that that cost is going to outweigh the benefits of getting al these fraudsters off the system.

but that's what they found in Florida.

A Republican State.

Okay.

Well.

You know, I want to do anythin to get all these freeloaders off because I know what kind of people they are.

They're horrible people.

Representative, The reason Social Security's not going, the reason Social Security is going broke is not because of all the working people that are on benefits.

It's all these freeloaders.

They're going to they're going to crash the entire system.

President Trump knows that.

Going back to roads funding, Would you what about an increase in registration fees for EVs?

No increases, even for EV registrations?

We have there is so much waste in our in our budget.

I just thought that Matt Hall o another Repulican was talking about EV registration fees.

There may be something there may be some negotiation in that arena, because we are you and the Democrats want to increase it.

You know, they want to do it 50 cent per gallon gas tax increase.

It's not going to happen.

But we're going to have to we're going to have to come somewhere in the middle to make it work.

Right.

But if you're not willing to go in the middle then how do you get an agreement?

That's just me personally.

I don't know if leadership's going to win.

I mean, leadership will probably come.

With some part of it.

Do you want to provide a yes vote?

I might.

I Might.

Well, what would you might vote?

I'm not crazy about voting for any tax increases, that's for sure.

But there is some revenue increase that you could hold your nose and do it.

Vote yes.

Well, maybe we'll see.

You could play the game with me.

You know, I have a I have.

Why don't you lean back if.

Because if you know what I know about how much fraud, waste and abuse and how many scams.

The budget is $83 billion, around there.

Yeah, you know, it'll be in.

Name a program that you're going to cut right now.

You know what the budget should be.

Can you name one I understand the numbers.

Can you name a line item that this has gone?

Let's talk about the the the the people the the oh, here's one for you.

We've we've spent tens o millions of dollars in Michigan.

Okay.

Money that should go into classrooms for kids.

We've spent that money on recess monitors training research monitors is a nonprofit group that we spend money on.

I think there's $1,000,000 in the budget this year to train recess monitors for our schools.

That is a waste of money.

And I'll cut we're going to cut that.

You know why is that.

A waste of money?

And I have no idea what that program is?

This is a scam It goes to.

And people monitor.

To have people monitor kids at elementary school?

The money goes to a nonprofit run by a bunch of leftist communists.

Okay.

They keep 80%.

They just say go, got to go to the schools.

Yeah, how about this?

But that's not saving money.

That's just shifting where it goes.

No one knows about this.

Okay?

We spend between $5 to $7 millio maintaining a fleet of aircraft in Michigan.

Very nice aircraft, private hangars.

We have our own private maintenance crews and mechanics and avionics people and all the staf to front these aircraft.

Right.

Get somebody money.

We have to fly the aircraft to Michigan?

Two?

None.

We have no pilots.

in Michigan, we haven't had a pilot to run our any one of our state aircraft for six months.

But we're still spending.

Don't they call one when they need one?

No, there is no one.

We have no one to fly over.

So how are these planes flying around?

Because they are I mean, the governor uses the plane every once in a while there.

They're lawmakers, Governor hasn't used a plane that we haven't had.

We have not had a pilot in six months, guys.

Six.

Wow.

Yeah All right.

I want to get back to your Georgia North Carolina thing.

So obviously, you've looked at the budgets in Georgia, North Carolina.

What are we spending money on here in Michigan that they're not spending money on in Georgia, in North Carolina, The first answer is people say, well, they don't have they don't have the freezing o their line on the roads.

Okay.

That I mean that.

But they have to air conditioned their classrooms.

You know, I'm not I'm not getting it in the weeds.

I'm a big picture guy.

I don't know all those details.

I don't have the time t look at all these differences.

But but but the thing I know i these states we have 10 million people are spending 20 and $19 billion less.

Some are spending, and they're still providing the same government services.

maybe their local governments are spending, are taxing more than our local governments.

Could that be a possibility?

Yeah.

All these states have lower lower property taxes of Michigan.

That's BS.

I'm just throwing out theories.

Their property taxes are one third of our property taxes.

I have looked that far into their budgets.

Well then there's got to be a reason.

There's got to be.

They're not they don't have a full time legislature.

They don't have a bureaucracy that a couple.

Of million.

They don't have as many state employees as we have.

They don't have they don't have teachers retiring, retiring in the stat at 40, making 200 grand a year.

There's a lot of things.

Who is your candidate for governor in 2026 here in Michigan?

I like all the candidates so far.

But they're also four one in the primary.

I'm not going to tell you who I'm going to support.

Why not?

We'll see.

Again, because I like all of them, because I'm not goin to put myself in that situation.

I'm going to fight for all.

We've got to vote for one of.

Them.

You're right.

But they're all going to have a great message and they're all going to they're all going to have agreement.

Was it a sooner for John James to run for governor?

or should he should've stayed in this congressional race?

I'm I'm I'm I got President Trump's back and I think he should stay out of the governor rac and stick it out in the house.

is there some chance that he might decide to not Like.

I think it'd be great.

Are you hearing that?

I think it'd be very foolish of him a this point to run for governor.

Do you think he'll.

Well wait he already is.

You think he should go back and run for Congress?

Absolutely.

Do you think it's selfish for him to run?

I love John James.

He is a great guy, but I think we need to I think he's more value he serves more value to his constituents in the natio if he's if he keeps that seat.

President Trump and Vice President Vance they were, they were really pushing like they're not happy with him.

No, they're not.

They're not happy with him right now.

Is it selfish for him to run?

I wouldn't consider a selfish What's the adjective you would use?

To running for governor.

I think he'd be a great governor if he ran for governor.

No, no.

I think it's the fact that he's basically if he doesn't if he stays in what is he doing to the party?

He's disappointing.

You know, President Trump, number one.

And he's he is he wa he is a great member of Congress and he needs t I think he needs to stay there, that seats to just too valuable to jeopardize losing.

What about the fourth?

What about housing his seat?

Should he stay in Congress rather than run for Senate?

I don't know.

I mean I don't think that I see this.

I mean, it's not a it's not a 5050 seat.

So I don't think that really matters much what he does.

Mm hmm.

Are we done?

That's all you guys got from that ask you.

Do you think there's the field then, for governor?

Is set on the Republican side, or do you expect more people to get in?

I wouldn't necessarily count Perry Johnson out.

I think he's a possibility.

But I think we're I thin things are firming up right now.

You know, Do you thin Mike Duggan can win this thing?

Mike Duggan's a Democrat.

He's a hardcore Democrat, and I don't think he's going to win.

No, absolutely not.

Are you really now supporting John James?

I mean, you just criticized him running for governor.

Are you saying you're not going to.

And not criticizing him.

If President Trump calls you up and says, hey, I'm endorsing John James you're not going to fall in line?

That's not going to happen.

Trump would not endorse John James.

No.

How do you know?

Becaus because President Trump's wants John James to stay in congress.

How do you know that?

I know a lot of things.

You won't tell us how?

So do you think that Trump is going to stay out of endorsing in the governor's race in Michigan?

Very likely, yes.

Okay.

Well, wouldn't if he wants to send John James a message, he'll endorse somebody else.

I think President Trump's going to stay out of the governor's race in Michigan.

I what do you want to be when you grow up?

A fireman.

That was a quick answer.

Job was just cut.

Right on the tip of your tongue.

you know, I've been a bondsman, I've been a bail bondsman for 35 years, and it's been a very rewarding career.

And I love I love doing it.

We may meet the greatest People is the most fascinating thing about what I do as a bail bondsman is seeing people turn their lives around.

It is something I don't talk about often, but it's very touching just to get calls from a mother or a grandmother saying that, you know, I just cannot tell you how much I appreciat you guys helping us and talking.

You know, a lot of times, you know, especially my earlier days, I would spend a lot of time after after this person get out of jail, you know, mentoring them and coaching them and giving them advice and that kind of stuff.

And to get calls from people, you know, three or four years later, after we out got them out of jail when they were in a bad place in their life, to have them give me a call.

You know, that's that's those are the things that mean a lot to me.

Representative thanks for showing up.

Pleasure to be here.

Good to see you.

Always fun to work with you.