>>> NEXT TO THE TOUGH WORK OF MAINTAINING DEMOCRACY ONCE IT HAS BEEN WON.

EVERY FEW DECADES THE U.S. CONGRESS REALIZING THINGS AREN'T WORKING THE WAY THEY SHOULD AND TRIES TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

THE LATEST EFFORT IS THE BIPARTISAN SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE MODERNIZATION OF CONGRESS ALSO KNOWN AS THE FIXED CONGRESS COMMITTEE AND THE NEXT GUEST ARE TWO CONGRESSMEN WHO LED THE GROUP, REPUBLICAN TIMMONS AND TELL MICHELLE MARTIN HOW THEY TRIED TO FIX IT.

>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US TODAY.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.

>> WE INVITED YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE PART OF THE -- IT SOUNDS WONKY BUT THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON MODERNIZATION.

YOU'RE PART OF WHAT SEEMS TO BE UNFORTUNATELY A RARITY IN CONGRESS THESE DAYS.

YOU'RE A BODY THAT HAS NOT ONLY WORKED WELL TOGETHER SO I WANTED TO START BY ASKING YOU WHY DO YOU WANT THIS?

>> AS A MEMBER OF CONGRESS I'M PART OF AN ORIZATION LESS POPULAR THAN HEAD LICE, NICKEL BACK -- >> I LIKE NICKEL BACK BUT I TAKE YOUR POINT.

>> YOU'VE SEEN GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWNS AND DYSFUNCTION.

EVERY 20 OR 30 YEARS THINGS AREN'T WORKING THE WAY YOU WANT THEM DO AND AS YOU MENTIONED, THIS ITERATION WAS CALLED THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE MODERNIZATION OF CONGRESS.

WHICH MAKES IT SOUND LIKE WE WERE THE I.T.

HELP DESK AND LOOKING HOW CONGRESS CAN BE A PLACE OF A BETTER IDEA OF HAVING MORE DIVERSE STAFF TO LOOKING AT ISSUES RELATED TO TECHNOLOGY.

CONGRESS IS AN 18th CENTURY INSTITUTION USING 20th CENTURY TECHNOLOGY TO SOLVE 21st CENTURY PROBLEMS.

WE WERE ASKED TO LOOK AT EVERYTHING FROM RULES AND PROCEDURES TO THE SCHEDULE AND CALENDAR WITHIN CONGRESS.

WE MENTIONED OURS WAS A COMMITTEE THAT DID SOMETHING.

WE MADE 202 RECOMMENDATIONS TO MAKE CONGRESS WORK BETTER ABOUT 45 HAVE BEEN FULLY IMPLEMENTED AND ANOTHER MORE THAN 70 ON THE PATH.

WE'LL KEEP PUSHING BECAUSE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DESERVE BETTER.

>> YOU'RE THE NEWER OF THE TWO TO CONGRESS BUT YOU RAN IN PART ON THE SENSE THAT CONGRESS WAS BROKEN AND THAT SOMETHING NEEDED TO BE FIXED.

SO FROM YOUR OUTSIDER PERSPECTIVE, WHAT DID YOU THINK NEEDED TO BE FIXED, WHICH IS ONE OF THE REASONS YOU AGREED TO SERVE IN THIS COMMITTEE AND I'M CURIOUS ABOUT ONCE YOU ACTUALLY GOT TO CONGRESS, WAS YOUR OUTSIDER PERCEPTION BORN OUT BY THE REALITY ONCE YOU GOT THERE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

MY CAMPAIGN SLOGAN FIVE YEARS AGO IS WASHINGTON IS BROKEN AND TO BE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO FIX CONGRESS FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS HAS BEEN AN INCREDIBLE HONOR AND REALLY THE MOST REWARDING WORK I'VE EVER DONE IN MY ENTIRE PROFESSIONAL CAREER.

DERRICK KILMER HAS SHOWN THE AMERICAN PEOPLE REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS CAN WORK WELL TOGETHER.

WHILE THERE WERE SIX REPUBLICANS AND SIX DEMOCRATS, WE HAD TO GET EIGHT VOTES AND WE BUILT RELATIONSHIPS, WE WORKED TOGETHER.

WE FOUND COMMON GROUND AND WE GOT THINGS DONE.

CONGRESS WAS WORSE THAN I THOUGHT IT WAS.

>> WHOA.

>> I CAME FROM THE STATE SENATE I THOUGHT WAS DYSFUNCTIONAL AND THE UNITED STATES HOUSE WAS SHOCKING.

A LOT OF THE CHALLENGES I THINK COME FROM THE FACT THAT REALLY FOR 30 PLUS YEARS, WE'VE BEEN CENTRALIZING POWER INTO THE HANDS OF A FEW AND SO A LOT OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS WE MADE WAS TO REEMPOWER MEMBERS AND COMMITTEES AND GIVE THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO LEGISLATE AND DIG INTO THE POLICY.

A LOT OF THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS WERE IMPLEMENTED THIS PAST IN THE 118th CONGRESS AND WE'RE SEEING THE FRUIT OF OUR LABOR.

THE IMPACT OUR WORK WILL HAVE WILL TAKE YEARS, IF NOT DECADES TO FULLY BE REALIZED BUT WE SEE THINGS GETTING BETTER EVERY DAY.

>> I AM INTERESTED TO HEAR YOU SAY IT WAS WORSE THAN YOU THOUGHT.

CAN YOU GIVE ME ONE EXAMPLE -- I'LL ASK YOU FOR AN EXAMPLE BOTH OF YOU WOULD AGREE WITH AS OPPOSED TO SOMETHING THAT'S A PARTICULAR CONCERN TO ONE SIDE.

>> THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THIS.

THERE IS 435 PEOPLE AND WE BOUNCE.

WE'RE IN SESSION LET'S GO BACK TO 20 -- BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.

WE WERE IN SESSION 66 TRAVEL DAYS.

THAT'S NOT ENOUGH TIME TO DO WORK.

THE AVERAGE IS 5.4 COMMITTEES BUT ALSO HAVE TO HAVE CONFIDENCE AND CAUCUS MEETINGS AND CONSTITUENT MEETINGS AND OUR TIME IS OVERWHELMED SO WE DON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO ACTUALLY ENGAGE IN POLICY MAKING AND TO BUILD RELATIONSHIPS.

THAT'S HOW WE GET THINGS DONE.

WE HOPEFULLY MADE STRIDES TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THEM TO BUILD RELATIONSHIPS.

ONE OF THE THINGS WHEN WE LISTEN TO MEMBERS THAT WHAT IS REALLY STRIKING WAS HOW PARTISANSHIP WAS BAKED INTO THE CAKE.

ONE OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS IS STOP DOING THAT.

TRY TO BUILD SOME BIPARTISANSHIP INTO ORIENTATION.

THAT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE ROCKET SCIENCE.

THERE ARE STRATEGIC INTERVENTIONS THAT CAN BE DONE TO AT LEAST TRY TO FOSTER A DYNAMIC OF MORE CIVILITY AND COLLABORATION WITHIN THE INSTITUTION.

OUR COMMITTEE TRIED TO MODEL THAT BEHAVIOR.

IF YOU WATCH A HEARING ON CSPAN YOU PROBABLY HAVE TOO MUCH TIME ON YOUR HANDS.

WE DON'T SIT WITH DEMOCRATS ON ONE SIDE AND REPUBLICANS ON THE OTHER.

WE STAGGER SEATING SO WHEN YOU HEAR SOMETHING INTERESTING, I CAN LEARN OVER AND SAY WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

YOU'RE LEARNING OVER TO SOMEONE IN A DIFFERENT PARTY.

WE SIT AROUND AT A ROUND TABLE.

WHY?

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU.

I NEVER HAD A GOOD CONVERSATION SPEAKING TO THE BACK OF SOMEBODY'S HEAD.

SO WE'VE TRIED TO FOSTER WITHIN OUR COMMITTEE MORE OF A DYNAMIC OF ACTUALLY HAVING THE INTERCHANGE OF IDEAS OF ACTUALLY TRYING TO LEARN SOMETHING IN COMMITTEES RATHER THAN IT BEING PERFORMANCE ART.

WHERE MEMBERS HOP IN FOR FIVE MINUTES AND THROW SOMETHING UP ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND DITCH AND HEAD TO THEIR OTHER COMMITTEE BECAUSE THEY'RE IN THREE OR FOUR COMMITTEES AT THE SAME TIME.

>> SOME INNOVATIONS ABOUT SITTING AT ROUND TABLES, NOT LOOKING ON A DAY WHERE YOU'RE LITERALLY LOOKING DOWN ON PEOPLE, HAVING MORE RETREATS FOR EXAMPLE.

YOU START THE WORK OF A SESSION WITH A BIPARTISAN WHERE EVERYBODY CAN LAY DOWN THEIR GUARD AND GET REAL WITH EACH OTHER.

WHY DO YOU THINK IT'S SO RARE IN CONGRESS?

>> I THINK TECHNOLOGY HAS MADE ENGAGING IN REAL HUMAN INTERACTION HARDER.

THE OUTRAGE OF THE DAY IS WHAT PEOPLE WANT TO HEAR ABOUT AND SO IT'S CHALLENGING TO ENGAGE IN EITHER RELATIONSHIP BUILDING OR POLICY MAKING AND IT HAS TO BE SOMETHING THAT'S INTENTIONAL AND AGAIN, HISTORICALLY, WE'VE SEEN POWER CENTRALIZED TO THE LEADERS AND THAT CREATED CHALLENGES.

CENTRALIZED POWER.

WE'RE EMPOWERING MEMBERS TO DO THE WORK AND IT'S CHALLENGING TO BUILD RELATIONSHIPS WITH CONGRESS BUT IT'S NOT AS CHALLENGING TO LOOK AT YOUR COMMITTEE.

WE HAD 12.

SO THAT WAS A HUGE BENEFIT.

I'M ON FINANCIAL SERVICES WHICH HAS 50 SOMETHING, ALMOST 60 PEOPLE AND 45.

SO I MEAN, IT'S EASIER TO TRY TO TARGET THOSE PEOPLE AND SPEND TIME TOGETHER AND GET TO KNOW THEM ON A PERSONAL LEVEL AND BUILD A RELATIONSHIP.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE TRUST TO DO ANYTHING AND IF YOU DON'T TRUST THE PEOPLE YOU'RE TRYING TO ENGAGE IN POLICY MAKING WITH, YOU'RE NEVER GOING TO GET ANYWHERE.

OUR COMMITTEE NOT ONLY DID WE BUILD TRUST, WE BUILT FRIENDSHIPS AND, YOU KNOW, THAT MADE US SO EFFECTIVE AT OUR JOB AND THAT'S WHAT WE HOPE CONGRESS CAN LEARN FROM.

>> IS THE ARGUMENT HERE THAT THE REASON THAT CONGRESS HAS SUCH A TOXIC ATMOSPHERE FROM WHAT WE SEE ON THE OUTSIDE, THE REASON THAT PEOPLE, SORT OF THE BOMB THROWERS, FLAME THROWERS ARE REWARDED WITH ATTENTION, IF NOT PRODUCTIVITY IT SERVES SOMEONE'S INTEREST.

IF THAT'S THE CASE, WHAT DO YOU DO ABOUT THAT?

>> THAT'S A LOT OF THE FOCUS THAT OUR COMMITTEE HAD TO FOSTER COLLABORATION.

WE HAD THE AUTHOR TESTIFY IN FRONT OF THE COMMITTEE AND INTRODUCED THE CONFLICT OF ENTREPRENEURS, PEOPLE WHO PROFIT OFF CONFLICT.

CONGRESS IS FILLED WITH THE FOLKS WHETHER IT BE AS A MEANS OF RAISING MONEY OR AS A MEANS OF BEING INVITED TO NON-CABLE NEWS OR GETTING SOCIAL MEDIA FOLLOWERS, THERE IS A COMMON DEE NOMINE TORE.

IF YOU SAY A BUNCH OF CRAZY STUFF YOU CAN DO ALL THREE OF THOSE THINGS.

OUR COMMITTEE WORKED UNDER A PRESUMPTION IF YOU WANT THINGS TO WORK DIFFERENTLY IN CONGRESS, YOU NEED TO DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY IN CONGRESS, WHICH IS WHY THE WORK WE DID AROUND A SEATING ARRANGEMENT WAS NOT COMIC.

RATHER THAN HAVING BICKERING BACK AND FORTH WE'VE NEVER BEEN PART OF A SUCCESSFUL PROJECT ON THE FRONT END DIDN'T SAY WHAT DO WE WANT TO GET DONE?

AND DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS SAID WHAT ARE OUR GOALS?

WE MAY NOT AGREE ON EVERYTHING.

LET'S AT LEAST TRY TO LAYOUT PROBLEMS, STATEMENTS AND THAT HAPPENS IN A BIPARTISAN WAY.

WE'RE TRYING TO MODEL GOOD BEHAVIOR AND CHANGE UP SOME OF THE INCENTIVES WITHIN THE INSTITUTION SO THERE CAN BE MORE FOCUS ON PROGRESS AND LESS ON PARTISAN BICKERING.

>> YOU TALKED ABOUT THE INCENTIVES FOR SOME OF YOUR COLLEAGUES TO -- DOESN'T MATTER IF THEY PASS A BILL AND HAVE SOCIAL MEEDS YA AND THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT LEGISLATING.

I'M CURIOUS, DO THE INCENTIVES OVERALL TO GET TO CONGRESS AND HOW YOU STAY IN CONGRESS, CAN THOSE BE -- ARE THEY KIND OF CONTRIBUTING TO THE HYPER PARTISANSHIP AND CAN THEY BE OVERCOME WITH RULES IN THE BODY?

DO YOU THINK THAT?

>> SO WE HAD A NUMBER OF HEARINGS ON THE ISSUE.

YOU CAN LOOK AT GERRYMANDERING AND THE WAY PRIMARIES ARE STRUCTURED.

YOU CAN LOOK AT A NUMBER OF THINGS AND THE QUESTION IS HOW CAN CONGRESS TRY TO HEAL ITSELF AND STILL ADDRESS THE OTHER ISSUES.

THAT'S PART OF IT.

I REALLY THINK THAT TECHNOLOGY IS THE BIGGER CHALLENGE.

WE'RE CURRENTLY GRAPPLING WITH THE DEGREE OF CONNECTEDNESS OUR CELL PHONE BRINGS TO US.

WE HAVE PEOPLE ON SOCIAL MEDIA SAYING THINGS THEY WOULD NEVER SAY.

MY GRANDFATHER WOULD WRITE A LETTER IF HE'S MAD AND PUT IT IN THE DESK DRAWER AND THREW AWAY 99 OF THE 100 IN THE DRAWER.

YOU HAD TO WAIT A DAY TO SEND IT.

THEY OUGHT TO MAKE THAT BUTTON ON TWITTER.

THEY'RE NOT GOING TO DO THAT.

WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO MANAGE INFORMATION.

JOURNALISM SUFFERED FROM IT BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF READER SHIP AND TRANSITION TO DIGITAL.

WE HAVE ALL THESE DIFFERENT CHALLENGES.

TECHNOLOGY IS PART OF IT.

WE'RE TRYING TO WORK THROUGH IT.

>> I GUESS WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY, IS THAT DESPITE THE YOU FEEL HOPEFUL AND IT SHOWS YOU THE SENSE OF DESPAIR PEOPLE HAVE OF OUR SOCIETY.

THE QUESTION IS WHAT IS GIVING YOU HOPE THIS CAN BE THESE KINDS OF MASSIVE SHIFTS CAN BE OVERCOME?

>> MY DISILLUSION WITH CONGRESS, WE HAD 12 PEOPLE THAT WORKED TOGETHER THAT BUILT RELATIONSHIPS THAT ENGAGED -- I TALK ABOUT EVIDENCE BASED POLICY MAKING IN A COLLABORATIVE MANNER FROM A POSITION OF MUTUAL RESPECT.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING.

WE SHOWED THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THAT REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS IN CONGRESS CAN DO THAT.

I MADE A NUMBER OF FRIENDS ALONG THE WAY AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO USING THE LESSONS I LEARNED FROM MY FRIEND AND CHAIRMAN DERRICK KILMER AND I'LL CONTINUE TO WORK HARD TO GET RESULTS FOR THE PEOPLE I REPRESENT AND FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

>> IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THE WORK OF YOUR COMMITTEE, THE WORK OF YOUR COMMITTEE WAS IN PART MADE POSSIBLE BECAUSE YOU WERE DEALING WITH PROCESSES AND NOT BELIEVES?

BECAUSE SOME ISSUES AREN'T BASED ON EVIDENCE BUT BELBELIEVES.

THE WORK OF YOUR COMITTEE IS NOT DECIDE WHAT BOOKS MY KID CAN READ, WHAT MEDICAL INTERVENTIONS I MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO FOR MY BODY -- DO YOU SEE MY POINT?

SOME OF THE THINGS THAT REALLY TEAR US APART AS A COUNTRY RIGHT NOW ARE BASED ON BELIEVES, NOT PROCESSES AND I WONDER IF YOU CAN APPLY THE WORK OF ADJUSTING PROCESSES TO WORK THAT SPEAKS TO DEEPLY HELD BELIEVES.

>> SO LET ME ANSWER THAT IN A FEW WAYS.

ONE, THERE WERE ISSUES THAT OUR COMMITTEE TOOK UP THAT WERE PRETTY POLARIZING.

ONE OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS WE MADE WAS TO RESTORE THE ABILITY OF CONGRESS TO MAKE INVESTMENTS AND PROJECTS IN A MEMBER'S DISTRICT RATHER THAN DEFERRING TO EXECUTIVE BRANCHS.

PEOPLE HAVE VERY STRONG OPINIONS ABOUT THAT AND WE'RE ABLE TO OVER THE COURSE OF TIME AND DISCUSSION TO FIND COMMON GROUND.

WHAT WE PROPOSED IS A NEW SYSTEM CALLED COMMUNITY PROJECT FUNDING WITH TRANSPARENCY BUILT INTO IT AND ACCOUNTABILITY TO ENSURE THAT FUNDS WERE SPENT EFFICIENTLY AND YOU DIDN'T HAVE BRIDGES TO NOWHERE AND THAT TYPE OF THING.

AND TO THE CREDIT OF APREP YEAH -- APPROPRIATION IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY THAT'S BEEN IMPLEMENTED IN A RESPONSIBLE WAY.

THAT WASN'T EASY TO GET THERE.

THERE WERE STRONG OPINIONS ON THAT.

TO YOUR POINT, THERE WILL BE COMMITTEES WHERE IT WILL BE TOUGH.

YOU KNOW, WHERE IDEOLOGY WILL MAKE IT VERY DIFFICULT TO DO EVIDENCE-BASED POLICY MAKING NEVERTHELESS, I THINK ONE OF THE REASONS THAT CONGRESS IS SOMETIMES STRUGGLING IS IN TOO MANY PLACES THERE IS EVIDENCE AND AN ATTEMPT AT PROBLEM SOLVING.

>> I'M CURIOUS WHETHER THE LEADERSHIP OF EITHER PARTY HAS MADE ANY EFFORT TO CALL ATTENTION TO THIS WORK AND IF THEY HAVEN'T, WHAT DOES THAT SAY?

>> I THINK THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT YOU'VE SEEN THE LEADERSHIP ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE ONE, SUPPORT THE EXTENSION OF THE COMMITTEE.

THE COMMITTEE WAS ONLY SUPPOSED TO LAST FOR A YEAR AND EXTENDED FOR ANOTHER YEAR AND TWO MORE YEARS AFTER THAT NOT JUST BECAUSE WILLIAM AND I WERE SLOW.

BECAUSE THERE WAS SUPPORT FOR THE WORK WE WERE DOING, THAT THERE WAS -- WE WERE BEING ENCOURAGED TO CONTINUE TO MAKE PROGRESS AND TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS TO MAKE THE INSTITUTION FUNCTION BETTER.

YOU SAW WITH THE NEW CONGRESS THE BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT AND THE CREATION OF A SUBCOMMITTEE FOCUSED ON IMPLANTATION OF THE RECOMMENDATION.

YOU'VE SEEN SUPPORT FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE.

IN FACT, WHEN OUR COMMITTEE WAS SLATED TO PHASE OUT, YOU SAW THE FRESHMAN MEMBERS, THE NEW MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICAN SEND A LETTER TO HOUSE LEADERSHIP SAYING HEY, THIS IS IMPORTANT WORK, CAN WE KEEP THIS GOING?

AND SO THANKFULLY, THIS HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT'S SUPPORTED BY LEADERSHIP IN BOTH PARTIES.

IT'S BEEN SUPPORTED BY RANK AND FILE MEMBERS FROM BOTH PARTIES.

AND I THINK THAT'S A TESTAMENT TO THE FACT THAT WE WERE DOING IMPORTANT WORK AND THAT PEOPLE WANT TO SEE THE INSTITUTION FUNCTION BETTER.

>> SO BEFORE WE LET YOU GO, THE COMMITTEE IS NO LONGER.

YOUR -- IT'S A SELECT COMMITTEE.

IT WAS SUNSETED AND NOW YOU'RE DONE SO HOW DO YOU KEEP THE MOMENTUM GOING AND HOW DO YOU KEEP THE FRIENDSHIPS GOING?

>> WELL, JUST IN REGARDS TO HOW WE'RE GOING TO MAINTAIN THE RELATIONSHIPS, WE ARE DOING AN EXCHANGE WORKING TOGETHER ON AT LEAST A DOZEN PIECES OF LEGISLATION.

EMANUEL AND I ARE SERVING ON THE FINANCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE.

WE WORK TOGETHER ON A NUMBER OF ISSUES.

IT'S ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE HIM.

WE SPEAK OFTEN, SIT TOGETHER WHEN WE'RE ON THE FLOOR.

YOU KNOW, THE RELATIONSHIPS THAT WE BUILT WILL TRAN SEND OUR WORK ON MODERNIZATION AND I HAVE A FEELING THAT DERRICK IS NOT GOING TO SEE THE END OF ME FOR A VERY LONG TIME SO HE'S STUCK WITH ME.

>> CONGRESSMAN WILLIAM TIMMONS IS A REPUBLICAN FROM SOUTH CAROLINA.

DERRICK KILMER IS A DEMOCRAT FROM WASHINGTON.

THEY WERE THE CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE MODERNIZATION.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANKS HAVING VERY US.